Random Thread

[Travis B.]

Something random that I suddenly started wondering about:

Has anyone ever written a book on the history of Europe's cultural relationship with lions? I mean the actual animals, not some kind of metaphor. Though, of course, their use as a metaphor would have to be an important part of such a history.

I mean, at first sight, it's a bit weird: These days, lions are seen as living in the African savannahs, generally in parts of Africa that are a long distance from Europe. But despite that, they have long played an important part in some aspects of European culture, for instance in heraldry. And that didn't just start with European colonialism and genocide in Africa; it's a lot older than that.

Of course, once you know the relevant parts of history, there's not much of a mystery left. Lions used to live in a lot of places where they're extinct now, as far north as what is now Turkey. Even relatively recently, they still lived in the northernmost parts of Africa. And throughout history, Southern Europe, and later most of Europe, had all kinds of contacts with North Africa.

Still, I wonder if there's any book-length treatment of what I've just written. And if there isn't, perhaps someone should write it?

What people forget is that it should be remembered that during Classical times North Africa, which had lions at the time, was part of the Roman world, which was deeply influential in Europe in general, such that the idea of lions was introduced across Europe. The fact that North Africa was conquered by Arabs during the early Middle Ages does not mean that the idea of the lion went away in Europe. However, that Europeans scarely ever saw real lions after Classical times might explain why lions in heraldry and like did not look all that realistic when compared with real live lions.

[keenir]

Has anyone ever written a book on the history of Europe's cultural relationship with lions? I mean the actual animals, not some kind of metaphor. Though, of course, their use as a metaphor would have to be an important part of such a history.

Still, I wonder if there's any book-length treatment of what I've just written. And if there isn't, perhaps someone should write it?

that i can think of, there was a book on the fauna that was kept in the Tower of London (besides the Princes) such as lions...I recall a book on mankind's history with lions (such as cave lions & cave paintings, then a chapter or two on what may've been European captivity & Roman/postRoman beastiaries)


thats a very good question

[Travis B.]

According to the Wiki lions were imported into Europe from North Africa during the Middle Ages, actually.

[malloc]

Given the current political and cultural associations of Elon Musk, I wonder if anyone has modified a cybertruck to roll coal. Obviously that would be quite a lot of work, but I could see someone trying.

[Starbeam]

Did Beekes think any of Ancient Greek's vocabulary is native? Wiktionary is doing its best to make you think they didn't

[malloc]

Did Beekes think any of Ancient Greek's vocabulary is native? Wiktionary is doing its best to make you think they didn't

That is something I have often wondered myself. Whenever I look up a Greek word on Wiktionary, the listed etymology is almost always "pre-Greek substrate".

[Starbeam]

Did Beekes think any of Ancient Greek's vocabulary is native? Wiktionary is doing its best to make you think they didn't

That is something I have often wondered myself. Whenever I look up a Greek word on Wiktionary, the listed etymology is almost always "pre-Greek substrate".

You forgot the full statement "pre-Greek substrate, according to Beekes". Give me a word right now; i'll look up the Ancient Greek translation and i bet that quote will be there in the etymology section

[Travis B.]

Did Beekes think any of Ancient Greek's vocabulary is native? Wiktionary is doing its best to make you think they didn't

That is something I have often wondered myself. Whenever I look up a Greek word on Wiktionary, the listed etymology is almost always "pre-Greek substrate".

You forgot the full statement "pre-Greek substrate, according to Beekes". Give me a word right now; i'll look up the Ancient Greek translation and i bet that quote will be there in the etymology section

I found one word that Wiktionary does not ascribe to a pre-Greek substrate (at least according to Beekes): πατήρ.

[Raphael]

Is the kid in this classic old condom commercial using a real language, or just made-up words? I was wondering from which country the ad originally was. Maybe France?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nojWJ6-XmeQ

[Ares Land]

The kid is screaming in French. The comments suggests it's a comedy skit, not a real commercial; in any case, juding by the grocery stores mentioned, it might be from Belgium.

[Raphael]

The kid is screaming in French. The comments suggests it's a comedy skit, not a real commercial; in any case, juding by the grocery stores mentioned, it might be from Belgium.

Thank you, that's what I was curious about. The scene might have started out as a comedy skit, but I think I remember that a long time ago, I saw it as an honest-to-goodness actual commercial during the commercial block before the movie in a theater. Then again, memories can play tricks.

Oh, and welcome back to the Board, Ares Land!

[Travis B.]

The kid is screaming in French. The comments suggests it's a comedy skit, not a real commercial; in any case, juding by the grocery stores mentioned, it might be from Belgium.

Welcome back!

[hwhatting]

Re lions: At least up to early antiquity, lions were also native to Greece.
Re the pre-Greek share of the Greek lexicon, there is a recent post by philologist Matthew Scarborough on his blog.

[Raphael]

Re lions: At least up to early antiquity, lions were also native to Greece.

Thank you, interesting to know!

[rotting bones]

There's a real planned city in Russia called Magnitogorsk, city of the magnetic mountain.

[Man in Space]

There's a real planned city in Russia called Magnitogorsk, city of the magnetic mountain.

You should see Zhelezhnogorsk’s city coat of arms.

[rotting bones]

You should see Zhelezhnogorsk’s city coat of arms.

Very nice. We need more goofiness in our lives.

[Ares Land]

There's a real planned city in Russia called Magnitogorsk, city of the magnetic mountain.

You should see Zhelezhnogorsk’s city coat of arms.

Is... this a bear splitting an atom?

[bradrn]

There's a real planned city in Russia called Magnitogorsk, city of the magnetic mountain.

You should see Zhelezhnogorsk’s city coat of arms.

Is... this a bear splitting an atom?

Splitting an atomic nucleus, rather.

[alice]

Looks to me more like a bear trying to rip a tin can open while playing in one of those astronaut-training zero-gravity things.