Erdanic scratchpad

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Ares Land
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Erdanic scratchpad

Post by Ares Land »

Oh, I haven't done this for ages!

External history

I think there have been countless iterations of this language, none of which I was really satisfied with.
It's always been meant to sound vaguely 'European', and for conworlding purposes I needed a language that feels familiar.

So eventually, I figured - why not go for an IE language? I usually went, as you'll see, with options that would feel familiar to English or Romance language speakers.

Internal history

There always have been, at infrequent intervals, population exchanges between Earth and Massotis, by means that are still ill-understood.
The last two such episodes that we know of occured on the Eastern side of the Syrtan continent (on the Massotis side) and involved Indo-European speakers; the first wave involving speakers of the ancestor of the Kanien language family; the second wave probably involved speakers of proto-Germanic.

Erdanic is a member of the Kanien family. The Kanien branch of Indo-European is not clearly related to any of the terrestrial branches of IE, but it seems closest to Italic and Celtic.

Erdania, on the East side of the Central Seas, was firmly a part of the Tarandim cultural sphere; in a situation of diglossia -- various Tarandim languages, notably Arjirets being the prestige language. The Arjirets script was eventually adapted to the Kanien language we call Old Erdanic.
A few centuries later, the rise of the Mirist religion established Classical Erdanic as a literary language.
This sketch describes the modern language, natively Erdanika (about 1200 to 1400 years after Classical Erdanic)

Phonology

This is not intended as in-depth phonological study, but rather a guide to the romanization I'll use.

Consonants
Labials Dentals Palatals Velars
Plosives p b t d k g
Fricatives f v s š /ʃ/x
Affricates z /ts/ č /tʃ// j /dʒ/
Nasals m n ny /ɲ/
Liquids l r ly /ʎ/
Semivowels u i
Vowels
Front Central Back
High i u
Close e o
Low æ a
Diphthongs:
au /aw/ eu /ew/, ie /je/~/jɛ/ ue /we/~/wɛ/, ou /ɔw/
Notable allophony:
e is [e] in open syllabes, [ɛ] in close syllables, likewise o [o] or [ɔ].
V + n world finally or in close syllables usually results in a nasal vowel, sometimes followed by [ŋ] or homorganic nasal: jenan [dʒe.nã]~[dʒe.nãŋ] 'woman (acc.)', luvanz [lu.vãts] ~ [lu.vãnts] 'they love'

Stress.
Stress usually falls on the penultimate, but may occur on the antepenult or the last syllable, in which case it is marked with an acute in the romanization. Stressed vowels are somewhat longers.
Many speakers diphthongize stressed finals: vradó, vradón [vra'dow] [vra'dõw̃ŋ] ('comrade', 'comrade(acc.)')

Syllable structure:
Erdanic allows (C)(C)V(N)(C) syllables; most initial clusters are permissible though nasal+stop clusters must be homorganic. stop+stop clusters are permissible but both components must match in voicing: pkavó 'bishop', nter 'inside'
CV or CVC syllables are preferred: feranter 'from within' : fe-ran-ter, not fe-ra-nter
Last edited by Ares Land on Fri Oct 23, 2026 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ares Land
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Re: Erdanic scratchpad

Post by Ares Land »

Nominal morphology

Nominals are marked for gender: masculine or feminine, two numbers: singular/plural, and four cases: nominative, accusative, genitive and dative.

Nouns.

Erdanic nouns are animate or inanimate; this is syntactically important, but semantically predictable. Morphologically, inanimates fall under either masculine or feminine gender, according to their declension paradigm.

There are four main declension classes.

First declension.
luv 'wolf'jena 'woman'
-C sg.-C pl.-a sg.-a pl.
masc sg. masc. pl. fem. sg. fem. pl.
nom.luvluvijenajeni
acc.luvanluvansjenanjenans
gen.luvasluvonjenasjenaun
dat. luvoluvaujenaijenau
Consonantal endings are usually masculine, -a usually marks the feminine.

When referring to animates, though, gender is semantically determined: naua 'sailor' is masculine -- assuming the sailor is male.

Consonantal ending nouns can form a feminine in -a though: luva 'she-wolf'

Second declension
vradó 'comrade'dmané 'sofa'
-ó sg.-ó pl.-é sg.-é pl.
nom.vradóvradóidmanédmanái
acc.vradónvradónsdmanémdmanáns
gen.vradósvradómdmanédmanáun
dat. vradóvradóudmanáidmanáu
Nouns in -ó are masculine, in -é feminine. No exceptions in this class, for 2nd declension nouns it's usual to switch the ending: comrade is vradé if you're talking about a woman.

Third declension
tečon 'architect'duxter 'daughter'
-on sg-on sg-er sg-er pl.
nom.téčontéčoniduxterduxteri
acc.téčonantéčonansduxteranduxterans
gen.téčonetéčononduxtereduxteron
dat. téčonitéčonauduxteriduxterau
Third declension nouns are masculine -- the one exception being the kinship terms duxter 'daughter' and sutser 'sister'.
It covers nouns ending in -on, -er, -or; the feminine counterparts are -on > -ona (first declension) -er, -or > -(e)ri (fourth declension)


Third declension, -ns type
nvans 'monk'
-ns sg.-ns pl.
nom.nvans nvanti
acc.nvantannvantans
gen.nvante nvanton
dat. nvantinvantau
The one notable difference in this subtype is the -ns > -nt- change in the plural and oblique cases. Again, this is a masculine paradigm; the feminine is in -nta > nvanta 'nun' (first declension)


4th declension
domo '(Mirist) church'šaji 'shade'
-o sg.-o pl.-i sg.-i pl.
nom.domodomoišajišajai
acc.domandomansšajinšajins
gen.domadomaunšajišajaun
dat. domodomoušajaišajau
-o is masculine, -i feminine.

4th declension, irregular
dor 'tree'mar 'sea'
sg.pl.sg.pl.
nom.dordorimarmari
acc.dorandoransmarinmarins
gen.doradoraunmarimaraun
dat. dorodoroumarimarau
A number of irregular nouns end in a consonant, but follow (mostly) the 4th declension pattern. These are the only nouns for which neither gender nor declension class is predictable from the nominative alone.
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WeepingElf
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Re: Erdanic scratchpad

Post by WeepingElf »

Looks pretty so far.
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Travis B.
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Re: Erdanic scratchpad

Post by Travis B. »

Duxter for 'daughter' seems awfully Germanic, I must say.
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
rotting bones
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Re: Erdanic scratchpad

Post by rotting bones »

This looks interesting.

Was Classical Erdanic influenced by Tarandim languages? If so, what's the pattern of loans?

When you say "population exchanges", does that mean some Earth languages originated in/on Massotis?
Ares Land
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Re: Erdanic scratchpad

Post by Ares Land »

@WeepingElf: thanks! @Travis: the cognates are kind of the fun part :)
rotting bones wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2026 7:15 am This looks interesting.

Was Classical Erdanic influenced by Tarandim languages? If so, what's the pattern of loans?

When you say "population exchanges", does that mean some Earth languages originated in/on Massotis?
Thanks!
1) Yes, very much so. The lexicon isn't huge at this point, so there's a lot to be worked out.
Generally, there were more Erdanic speakers but Arjirets speakers had higher social status. So I think the loans concentrate in the more formal registers. The literary tradition was entirely in Tarandim languages too. There's probably a fair amount of syntactic influence which I have yet to figure out.
2) No. I think at the times when crossing from one world to another, Massotis was a lot more sparsely populated. I think proto-Kanien speakers arrived on Massotis, the local populations were hunter-gatherers.
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WeepingElf
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Re: Erdanic scratchpad

Post by WeepingElf »

Reading this again, I found a minor mistake in your consonant chart: /ʎ/ is, if you are using the correct IPA symbol, palatal, not retroflex.
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Ares Land
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Re: Erdanic scratchpad

Post by Ares Land »

Adjectives

Adjective declension is similar to nominal declension, with the following paradigms (largely identical to nominal declensions):

First declension
unak 'unique, single'
masc. sgmasc. pl.masc. sg.masc. pl.
nom.unakunakiunakaunaki
acc.unakanunakansunakanunakans
gen. unakasunakonunakasunkaun
dat.unakounakouunakaiunakau
Second declension
aldó, aldé 'great, big'
masc. sgmasc. pl.masc. sg.masc. pl.
nom.aldóaldóialdéaldái
acc.aldónaldónsaldémaldáns
gen.aldósaldómaldéaldáun
dat. aldóaldóualdáialdáu
Third declension
somnis 'happy, merry'
masc. sgmasc. pl.masc. sg.masc. pl.
nom.somnissomnitisomnitasomnitai
acc.somnitansomnitanssomnitansomnitans
gen.somnitesomnitonsomnitassomnitaun
dat. somnitisomnitausomnitaisomnitau
Consonantal stems; -r and -n steps are rarely found in adjectives; however -s/-t (note the change) stems are common.

Fourth declension
lyevo 'light'
masc. sgmasc. pl.masc. sg.masc. pl.
nom.lyevolyevoilyevilyevai
acc.lyevanlyevanslyevinlyevins
gen.lyevalyevaunlyevilyevaun
dat. lyevolyevoulyevailyevau
Comparatives and superlatives

The comparative is formed with the suffix -os / -isi (replacing the original ending if needed).
Declension goes as follows:

aldos 'greater'
masc. sgmasc. pl.fem. sg.fem. pl.
nom.aldosaldosialdisialdisai
acc.aldosanaldosansaldisinaldisins
gen. aldosasaldosonaldisinaldisaun
dat.aldosoaldosoualdisaialdisau

As you'll see, the paradigm is somewhat tricky: the masculine endings are that of the first declension (despite the final -s), the feminine endings are that of the fourth declension.

The superlative is in -isam, -isama; that form simply follows the first declension patterns:

aldisam 'greatest'
masc. sgmasc. pl.fem. sg.fem. pl.
nom.aldisam aldisamialdisamaaldisami
acc.aldisamanaldisamansaldisamanaldisamans
gen. aldisamasaldisamonaldisamasaldisamaun
dat.aldisamoaldisamoualdisamaialdisamau
Irregular comparative and superlative.

There are a handful of irregular comparatives and superlatives:

pen 'good' → manos 'better', manisam 'best, much better'
xun 'bad, evil' → nyelos 'worse', nyelisam 'very bad, worst'
tsax 'near, close by' → tsačér 'closer' (3rd declension) , freš 'closest' (1st declension)
duró 'far' → durčér 'farther' (3rd declension), durisam 'furthest'
faló 'many, much' → mieo 'more' (4th declension), mieisam 'most'
mal 'small', fau 'few' → minat 'less, smaller', minatisam 'fewest, smallest, very few, very small'
Last edited by Ares Land on Fri Oct 23, 2026 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ares Land
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Re: Erdanic scratchpad

Post by Ares Land »

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2026 8:59 am Reading this again, I found a minor mistake in your consonant chart: /ʎ/ is, if you are using the correct IPA symbol, palatal, not retroflex.
Fixed!
Ares Land
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Re: Erdanic scratchpad

Post by Ares Land »

Personal pronouns
Iyou (sg.)heshe
nomæjtoesja
accmeteenjan
dat/genmataæmmijai
weyou(pl)they (masc.)they (fem.)
nomntojoesijas
accntejeinsjans
dat/genntajaisonjau
we exclusiveyou (polite)it (inanimate)one (indef.)
nomiæriænaedxæm
acciæransænansedxan
dat/geniærauænauæmmixani
A few notes:
  • Dative and genitive merge in personal pronouns.
  • Erdanic distinguishes inclusive and exclusive we, or used to. iæri is falling into disuse.
  • æna (polite you) is very formal. There's a plural variant ænai, but that one is even more rare.
Possessive clitics

Possession is marked with a clitic:

vradó=ma 'my comrade', duxter=en 'their daughter'

The clitic forms are as follows:
clitic
myma
your (sg)ta
hismi
herša
ournas
your (pl)ta
their (pl.)en
rotting bones
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Re: Erdanic scratchpad

Post by rotting bones »

Ares Land wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2026 8:34 am Thanks!
1) Yes, very much so. The lexicon isn't huge at this point, so there's a lot to be worked out.
Generally, there were more Erdanic speakers but Arjirets speakers had higher social status. So I think the loans concentrate in the more formal registers. The literary tradition was entirely in Tarandim languages too. There's probably a fair amount of syntactic influence which I have yet to figure out.
I'm curious about what the influence on syntax is like. Does it overpower the inherited IE syntax or change it in specific cases? I'm not sure I understand IE syntax in enough detail to identify when the syntax in a specific case defies expected behavior from the region where proto-Kanien speakers originated.
Ares Land wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2026 8:34 am 2) No. I think at the times when crossing from one world to another, Massotis was a lot more sparsely populated. I think proto-Kanien speakers arrived on Massotis, the local populations were hunter-gatherers.
Were the proto-Kanien speakers hunter-gatherers too? If not, how did Arjirets speakers end up with higher status?
Ares Land
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Re: Erdanic scratchpad

Post by Ares Land »

Definite article

The definite article is to, ta - declined as follows :

masc sg. masc. pl. fem. sg. fem. pl.
nom.totoitatai
acc.tontonstantans
gen.tostusontašatason
dat. tommitoutašaitau


There's no indefinite article. But while I'm dumping declension tables, here are the demonstratives:
ček 'that'
masc sg. masc. pl. fem. sg. fem. pl.
nom.čekčekičekačeki
acc.čekančekansčekančekans
gen. čekasčekončekasčekaun
dat.čekočekaučekaičekau
čen 'that'
masc sg. masc. pl. fem. sg. fem. pl.
nom.čenčeničenačeni
acc.čenančenansčenančenans
gen. čenasčenončenasčenaun
dat.čenočenaučenaičenau
Various adverbs

ke, tače 'here' nša, čenša 'there'
nu 'now', nuer, tanuer 'then'
tana 'thus'
Last edited by Ares Land on Fri Oct 23, 2026 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
rotting bones
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Re: Erdanic scratchpad

Post by rotting bones »

Ares Land wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2026 2:08 pm There's no definite article.
Indefinite?
Ares Land
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Re: Erdanic scratchpad

Post by Ares Land »

Ah, yes, indefinite.
rotting bones wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2026 1:50 pm I'm curious about what the influence on syntax is like. Does it overpower the inherited IE syntax or change it in specific cases? I'm not sure I understand IE syntax in enough detail to identify when the syntax in a specific case defies expected behavior from the region where proto-Kanien speakers originated.
I don't know if it'll be very spectacular. To take an example of something I have in mind:

(Arj.) li ʕonde šerħawarnat am ɓon
li ʕonde šerħa-warn-at am ɓon
in mountain deer-hunt-PAST DEF king
(Classical E.) en aondai keroʉwā́ so bbon
en aond-ai kero-ʉwā so bbon
in mountain-DAT deer-hunt.3p.PAST DEF king
'The king hunted deer in the mountains.'

That's still pretty much within the range of what IE languages do. (That's the classical language, too. I don't know yet how it develops in the modern language.)

EDIT: the Classical Erdanic is modeled on Arjirets, so it's literary.
I think the peasants would say something like en moniʉ rēg kerom ʉwā.
rotting bones wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2026 1:50 pm Were the proto-Kanien speakers hunter-gatherers too? If not, how did Arjirets speakers end up with higher status?
To be more specific, the continent the Kanien (IE) speakers arrived on was mostly hunter gatherers - or in fact maybe there were early farmers. Agriculture was spreading outwards the Tarandim heartland across the sea. The ancestors of the Arjirets speakers already had a sophisticated urban culture. The Kanien speakers were farmers too (early Bronze age I think) and pastoralists. The place they arrived was some distance from Erdania (I don't know how far.)
I think both Arjirets speakers and the Kanien settled the coast (Erdania) within the same couple of centuries. Except the Arjirets speakers were wealthier and had better weaponry.
A real world analogue would be the Greek colonies in Gaul or Southern Italy.
Ares Land
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Re: Erdanic scratchpad

Post by Ares Land »

Interrogative pronouns


če 'who?', kod 'what?'

če 'who'kod 'what'
sg.pl.sg.pl.
nom.čečikodka
acc.čenkinskodka
gen. keskisankoskaun
dat.kemmikeukommikau

kuær, 'which?', 'which one?'

kuær 'which one?'
masc. sg.masc. pl.fem. sg.fem. pl.
nom.kuærkuærikuærakuæri
acc.kuærankuæranskuærankuærans
gen. kuæraskuæronkuæraskuæraun
dat.kuærokuæraukuæraikuæraun

kali, kalai 'how, how many, how much?'

kali 'how', 'how much'kalai 'how many'
sg.pl.
nom.kalikalai
acc.kalinkalins
gen. kalikalaun
dat.kalaikalau

To these we can add the undeclinable interrogatives:
  • ka, 'where?' ; ked, 'whence? why?' ; kor, 'whither? what for?'
  • kue, 'how?'
  • kuer, kiver 'when?'
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