English questions

[zompist]

Thank you!

or implies things like plumbing work. Alternatives include trainee or intern.

I am thinking of blue-collar work. Trainee might work, but do internships usually involve training that counts as a professional qualification?

Yes, that's the whole idea. An internship may be paid or not, but it's something you can put on your resume (CV).

Is this for your SF book? If so you have more leeway, and indeed a conworlding opportunity

[Raphael]

Is this for your SF book? If so you have more leeway, and indeed a conworlding opportunity

Yes, it is. In that context, I'm admittedly rather implausibly assuming that parts of our time's German educational and professional training system survive for a looooooong time into the future. The aspect I'm using is bog-standard non-academic on-the-job training which you can not just put on your CV, but use as the main "qualifications" part of it. Not at all conworlding for me, but for college-educated USA-nians, it might well sound exotic enough that it comes across as conworlding to them .

[Lērisama]

Yes, it is. In that context, I'm admittedly rather implausibly assuming that parts of our time's German educational and professional training system survive for a looooooong time into the future. The aspect I'm using is bog-standard non-academic on-the-job training which you can not just put on your CV, but use as the main "qualifications" part of it. Not at all conworlding for me, but for college-educated USA-nians, it might well sound exotic enough that it comes across as conworlding to them .

Such things do exist here, although not to the extent that they used to, or that they do in Germany, and having been a beta-reader, I think it's what I'd prefer in your context. The only reason I'm saying this separately is that my PM from yesterday didn't seem to send, so I've sent another one and am putting a notice here.

[Raphael]

Yes, it is. In that context, I'm admittedly rather implausibly assuming that parts of our time's German educational and professional training system survive for a looooooong time into the future. The aspect I'm using is bog-standard non-academic on-the-job training which you can not just put on your CV, but use as the main "qualifications" part of it. Not at all conworlding for me, but for college-educated USA-nians, it might well sound exotic enough that it comes across as conworlding to them .

Such things do exist here, although not to the extent that they used to, or that they do in Germany, and having been a beta-reader, I think it's what I'd prefer in your context. The only reason I'm saying this separately is that my PM from yesterday didn't seem to send, so I've sent another one and am putting a notice here.

Thank you! About to check out your new PM...

[hwhatting]

Yes, it is. In that context, I'm admittedly rather implausibly assuming that parts of our time's German educational and professional training system survive for a looooooong time into the future. The aspect I'm using is bog-standard non-academic on-the-job training which you can not just put on your CV, but use as the main "qualifications" part of it. Not at all conworlding for me, but for college-educated USA-nians, it might well sound exotic enough that it comes across as conworlding to them .

The idea of introducing German-style apprenticeships seems to enjoy some popularity among policy wonks in Britain and the U.S., so a scenario where this moves from wonkery to actual policy is not totally unrealistic.

[Raphael]

Yes, it is. In that context, I'm admittedly rather implausibly assuming that parts of our time's German educational and professional training system survive for a looooooong time into the future. The aspect I'm using is bog-standard non-academic on-the-job training which you can not just put on your CV, but use as the main "qualifications" part of it. Not at all conworlding for me, but for college-educated USA-nians, it might well sound exotic enough that it comes across as conworlding to them .

The idea of introducing German-style apprenticeships seems to enjoy some popularity among policy wonks in Britain and the U.S., so a scenario where this moves from wonkery to actual policy is not totally unrealistic.

Further spread wouldn't really be needed, since the story starts out in Germany (though it's written in English).

[jal]

To me as a non-native speaker, "apprentice" either refers to the Trump show, but more typical mediaeval fantasy, especially a wizard apprentice.


JAL

[Raphael]

To me as a non-native speaker, "apprentice" either refers to the Trump show, but more typical mediaeval fantasy, especially a wizard apprentice.


JAL

Is there an equivalent Dutch term?

[jal]

Is there an equivalent Dutch term?

I'd say it's mostly just translated with "leerling", "student".


JAL

[Raphael]

Is there an equivalent Dutch term?

I'd say it's mostly just translated with "leerling", "student".


JAL

Thank you!

[Travis B.]

To me apprentice refers to someone who is in job training at some time distance in the past, back when they had guilds and such. And yes, its modern analogue is the intern.

[Raphael]

And yes, its modern analogue is the intern.

Well, I think there are limits to the analogy. An old-time apprentice could, and in places where the concept still exists, a modern apprentice can, treat their apprenticeship as a full-fledged professional training that qualifies them for the job in question. How much of a chance would someone in today's USA have to get hired for anything if they'd tell their would-be employers "I've never been to college, and I've never been to any kind of vocational school, either, but I once did this really great internship"?

[jal]

Well, I think there are limits to the analogy.

All analogies have limits, I'd say :). Back when apprenticeships existed, there was no practical higher education - if you wanted to have a certain job, you needed to become an apprentice.


JAL

[alice]

"Apprentice" comes before "journeyman", does not it?

[Raphael]

"Apprentice" comes before "journeyman", does not it?

Yes, I think so.

[zompist]

How much of a chance would someone in today's USA have to get hired for anything if they'd tell their would-be employers "I've never been to college, and I've never been to any kind of vocational school, either, but I once did this really great internship"?

Narrowly: qualifications are exactly what an internship is for. It's a Job Lite™. If you get a internship at a publishing company, that is a very good step toward getting a job at one.

More broadly: if this is the German system, you have to assume that non-Germans do not understand it, and you're going to have to explain what it means; simply choosing a term won't do it. Outsiders (e.g. Americans) will probably assume that it is coercive and inferior to university education— deciding your entire future at too young an age. I point this out only so that you're aware of the perception and can address it in the book.

[Raphael]

How much of a chance would someone in today's USA have to get hired for anything if they'd tell their would-be employers "I've never been to college, and I've never been to any kind of vocational school, either, but I once did this really great internship"?

Narrowly: qualifications are exactly what an internship is for. It's a Job Lite™. If you get a internship at a publishing company, that is a very good step toward getting a job at one.

More broadly: if this is the German system, you have to assume that non-Germans do not understand it, and you're going to have to explain what it means; simply choosing a term won't do it. Outsiders (e.g. Americans) will probably assume that it is coercive and inferior to university education— deciding your entire future at too young an age. I point this out only so that you're aware of the perception and can address it in the book.

Thank you!

[Travis B.]

Note that here in the US internships are commonly combined with college education, e.g. oftentimes people will do internships in the summer between semesters at a university.

[Raphael]

Note that here in the US internships are commonly combined with college education, e.g. oftentimes people will do internships in the summer between semesters at a university.

Which is part of why I don't think it makes sense to compare them to apprenticeships.

[hwhatting]

Is there an equivalent Dutch term?

I'd say it's mostly just translated with "leerling", "student".

It used to be called Lehrling in German, but then about 40-50 years ago the usual well-meaning people decided that it's demeaning or old-fashioned or something like that, and Auszubildende(r) was introduced as the official, legal term. In everyday speech this was shortened to Azubi, and that's what you hear mostly nowadays.