German Politics Thread

[Lērisama]

Where I live, we're barely leaving a four-months 40°C heatwave, with three huge wildfires close to where I live.

England has had it better. I think it didn't reach 40°C. Viewed from a distance, lawns are turning or have turned green, and my drought-ravaged hydrangeas are putting forth new shoots. Our depleted aquifers may now be refilling, though they are unlikely to be ready for next year's drought and record heatwave.

No, we only reached 38°C at most, and where I lived we were mostly in the low thirties¹, and that was bad enough. Baring in mind a normal hot summer's day² is between 20°–25°C

¹ Three cheers for peninsulae and the specific heat capacity of water!
² Of the type we normally get about a week of per year³
³ Edit: as Richard said, the new normal is a record drought and heatwave roughly every other year. The previous footnote only stands for summers as they were when I were a lad. And I'm young enough the idea of there being a difference is terrifying.

[Richard W]

³ Edit: as Richard said, the new normal is a record drought and heatwave roughly every other year.

Not where I was coming from. I have heard or read a sober prediction that next year will be worse. The newer normal might by a record drought and heatwave every year. Now, water supplies might be fixed by renationalising water companies, but I fear money will instead be poured into defence spending, and that's without specifically protecting free world North American members of NATO.

[MacAnDàil]

There's a grain of truth in what jcb is saying: there's a lot of focus on individual lifestyle changes. But there's not much you can do individually and the less well-off you are, the less options you have. If you gotta drive to work, you gotta drive to work; if the train is too expensive, it's too expensive; if the food and clothes you buy are imported, well, you get the idea.
You have options, individual, you can work remotely or move closer to public transportation or be careful about what you buy, but these options are available for the (upper) middle class and higher.

While options may be reduced for lower income people, 1° individual lifestyle changes need to be much more drastic for higher income people 2° car users are more numerous among higher classes 3° there are still options available to lower income people like eating more plants and zero waste.

But yes, focus should be on positive vision and include collective responses.

[malloc]

More grim news out of Germany as the AfD wins another election in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, further advancing to power over the country. Meanwhile the far left Die Linke has won in Berlin, although I have heard conflicting claims about them, with some sources characterizing them as pro-Russia tankies.

[zompist]

More grim news out of Germany as the AfD wins another election in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, further advancing to power over the country.

By "wins" I assume you're referring to their losing the election, 32 to 39 seats, and they will "advance to power" in the sense of not advancing to power. I am subject to correction by our German members, but I believe that even under German law, 39 is higher than 32.

The CDU sure lost though.

[Raphael]

More grim news out of Germany as the AfD wins another election in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, further advancing to power over the country.

By "wins" I assume you're referring to their losing the election, 32 to 39 seats, and they will "advance to power" in the sense of not advancing to power. I am subject to correction by our German members, but I believe that even under German law, 39 is higher than 32.

The CDU sure lost though.

Yes. I admit that coalition politics can be confusing for people from two party countries, though.

[Ares Land]

Of course, the AFD doing well is really bad news. They didn't win, though, and it's not clear they can form a government in Saxony-Anhalt either.

As for Die Linke, I think the worst elements left formed their own party (the BSW), which either loses the elections or barely gets above the threshold; their leadership was also renewed. I think the remaining tankies are way past retirement age now.
It's not a bad thing they get a try at running things in Berlin I think. As I understand it, the SPD has given up on being left-wing, and also on doing anything of interest whatsoever, so somebody has to step up. I think one advantage of the German federal system is the possibility to try out new alternatives on a local level.

The rise of the far-right is of course cause for worry, but Germany seems still at the stage where effective actions can be done. The situation in Germany, where the AFD gets a relatively small-scale political success and everyone panics feels way healthier than what's happening right now in France.

[WeepingElf]

Of course, the AFD doing well is really bad news. They didn't win, though, and it's not clear they can form a government in Saxony-Anhalt either.

Nobody knows what the BSW will do - probably not even the BSW themselves

As for Die Linke, I think the worst elements left formed their own party (the BSW), which either loses the elections or barely gets above the threshold; their leadership was also renewed. I think the remaining tankies are way past retirement age now.

Right - the tankies are either retired or dead by now, and most of the cranks are now in the BSW. What is left is a somewhat radical but fairly reasonable left-wing party.

It's not a bad thing they get a try at running things in Berlin I think. As I understand it, the SPD has given up on being left-wing, and also on doing anything of interest whatsoever, so somebody has to step up. I think one advantage of the German federal system is the possibility to try out new alternatives on a local level.

Yes, the SPD has moved towards the centre, which is the reason why many of their traditional voters have gone to Die Linke or the Greens (who have also moved towards the centre, though). But on the right side of the spectrum, the CDU has also moved towards the centre, leaving the right-wing lunatic fringe to the AfD.

The rise of the far-right is of course cause for worry, but Germany seems still at the stage where effective actions can be done. The situation in Germany, where the AFD gets a relatively small-scale political success and everyone panics feels way healthier than what's happening right now in France.

Sure. There is a lot of public discussion about banning the AfD, which of course would be difficult and not really do away with the problem as other far-right parties would try filling the gap. And those who claim that Germany wasn't really a democracy would feel vindicated - they would say that a country that bans the most popular opposition party just can't be a democracy! So an AfD ban can only be a part of the solution. What the elections show is that business as usual is not a particularly popular strategy in times of crisis

[Raphael]

Yes, the SPD has moved towards the centre, which is the reason why many of their traditional voters have gone to Die Linke or the Greens (who have also moved towards the centre, though).

I'd say way too many former old-school working class SPD voters have gone over to the AfD, too. As for the Greens, I've got the impression that they lost those voters who were too left-wing to accept a move to the center 20 to 30 years ago, so they can't lose them now any more.

But on the right side of the spectrum, the CDU has also moved towards the centre, leaving the right-wing lunatic fringe to the AfD.

True, but another factor might be that they moved from Wohlstand für Alle to what Ares Land himself, earlier in this thread, called "work a shit job till you drop dead".

[WeepingElf]

Yes, the SPD has moved towards the centre, which is the reason why many of their traditional voters have gone to Die Linke or the Greens (who have also moved towards the centre, though).

I'd say way too many former old-school working class SPD voters have gone over to the AfD, too. As for the Greens, I've got the impression that they lost those voters who were too left-wing to accept a move to the center 20 to 30 years ago, so they can't lose them now any more.

Fair; the Greens mostly appeal to intellectuals. The main factor for the decline of the SPD is the massive shrinkage of the industrial working class - few people in Germany work on the factory floor anymore. And the few that remain have indeed to a large part moved to the AfD.

But on the right side of the spectrum, the CDU has also moved towards the centre, leaving the right-wing lunatic fringe to the AfD.

True, but another factor might be that they moved from Wohlstand für Alle to what Ares Land himself, earlier in this thread, called "work a shit job till you drop dead".

Yes, while the CDU still promise Wohlstand für alle, people don't believe them anymore after the 16 years of jobless growth and growing inequality under Kohl.

[Raphael]

Yes, while the CDU still promise Wohlstand für alle,

Do they still promise that? My impression is that under Merz, they're openly in favor of less wealth for the many to maintain and increase the wealth of the few.

[Ares Land]

Yes, while the CDU still promise Wohlstand für alle, people don't believe them anymore after the 16 years of jobless growth and growing inequality under Kohl.

Oh, on that matter, there's something I'd like some inside perspective on.
From an outsider perspective, Angela Merkel looked basically all right. Not my political side, but she seemed often willing to do the right thing. (That's purely anecdotal, but I used to visit Berlin and Munich on a semi-regular basis during the Merkel years, and the country certainly had the appearances - if not the reality - of being generally prosperous). How do Germans actually feel about the Merkel years?

(An expat friend of mine reports that Germany has gone to the dogs since. But he's kind of dramatic that way, I'm afraid )

[Raphael]

Yes, while the CDU still promise Wohlstand für alle, people don't believe them anymore after the 16 years of jobless growth and growing inequality under Kohl.

Oh, on that matter, there's something I'd like some inside perspective on.
From an outsider perspective, Angela Merkel looked basically all right. Not my political side, but she seemed often willing to do the right thing. (That's purely anecdotal, but I visited Berlin and Munich on a semi-regular basis during the Merkel years, and the country certainly had the appearances - if not the reality - of being generally prosperous). How do Germans actually feel about the Merkel years?

(An expat friend of mine reports that Germany has gone to the dogs since. But he's kind of dramatic that way, I'm afraid )

Hard to say, though that's partly because I'm so out of touch. Keep in mind that most of the time, Merkel muddled through and tried to handle conflicts by somehow splitting the difference, though. But the two things she's most remembered for, her handling of the Euro Crisis and her handling of the migrant influx, were exceptions to that rule.

[malloc]

The rise of the far-right is of course cause for worry, but Germany seems still at the stage where effective actions can be done. The situation in Germany, where the AFD gets a relatively small-scale political success and everyone panics feels way healthier than what's happening right now in France.

Perhaps so, but it does feel like the AfD (like so many other far right movements) just keeps getting stronger with each passing year. What are its opponents doing to resist it?

[Ares Land]

The rise of the far-right is of course cause for worry, but Germany seems still at the stage where effective actions can be done. The situation in Germany, where the AFD gets a relatively small-scale political success and everyone panics feels way healthier than what's happening right now in France.

Perhaps so, but it does feel like the AfD (like so many other far right movements) just keeps getting stronger with each passing year. What are its opponents doing to resist it?

As I said, yes, it's not a good situation at all. I just want to note that the situation is not yet as severe as it is in most other countries.

[Raphael]

In not exactly world shaking news, yesterday, in the runoff election for mayor where I live, there were, unfortunately, only two center-right candidates left on the ballot, no one else, and out of those two, the challenger, of the Free Voters, beat the incumbent, of the CDU. I think it had been quite a while since the last time a mayor running for re-election here lost.

[Ares Land]

I haven't heard about the Free Voters! (OK, I vaguely heard them mentioned, I think). Who are they?

[Raphael]

I haven't heard about the Free Voters! (OK, I vaguely heard them mentioned, I think). Who are they?

They're mainly a thing in local politics, so they usually don't make the kind of news that people in other countries would hear about. They started out as a "non-ideological" alternative to major parties, with a focus on local issues. Or at least that was the idea. Of course, in practise, "non-ideological" all too often means "sort of vaguely conservative". And unfortunately, sometimes they get into outright right-wing populism.

Even their local chapter here seems to be quite a mixed bag, and there might be even more variation between chapters. I've got mixed feelings about all this. The new guy seems to have been a bit of a loudmouth in the past, but there doesn't really seem to be anything wrong with his official written platform. As for the beaten incumbent, she's basically a heiress to a lot of farmland, perhaps a bit like a woman version of David Horton from The Vicar of Dibley, and might have spent much of her life being used to not having to care too much about other people's points of view. And her treatment of the local administration seems to have sometimes gotten close to DOGE levels of malpractice. Among other things, she seems to have bullied the Treasurer, a civil servant, into escaping to early retirement.

The whole runoff thing made me think, "Ah, so that's how people with more radical views than my own feel in every election."

[Ares Land]

Oh, OK, thank you! And it's funny how local politics is basically the same everywhere

[Raphael]

And it's funny how local politics is basically the same everywhere

Got similar characters where you live?