The "trying to motivate and encourage each other's creative progress" thread

[alice]

A long and complicated song is coming together, at last.

Congratulations and good luck!

Thanks. It's going slower than I'd like because I have to record most of the parts in little bits.

[Raphael]

A long and complicated song is coming together, at last.

Congratulations and good luck!

Thanks. It's going slower than I'd like because I have to record most of the parts in little bits.

You sing a note, end the recording, do some preparatory work, start the recording again, and sing the next note?

[alice]

Congratulations and good luck!

Thanks. It's going slower than I'd like because I have to record most of the parts in little bits.

You sing a note, end the recording, do some preparatory work, start the recording again, and sing the next note?

Not "sing"; I have a terrible voice which I wouldn't dream of inflicting on my fellow persons. It's more like "play a few notes over and over again until I get it right, then save and repeat from where I stopped last time". So more or less what you thought, actually.

In the meantime, I realised that the song I've been working on consists of a lot of good ideas thrown together without much coherence, not unlike another song which I had nagging doubts about. I'll lock them together in a sealed room and, with a bit of luck, they'll mate and something fully convincing will emerge.

[Raphael]

In the meantime, I realised that the song I've been working on consists of a lot of good ideas thrown together without much coherence,

Nothing to be ashamed of - sounds a bit like my first essay collection from back in 2024.

[alice]

In the meantime, I realised that the song I've been working on consists of a lot of good ideas thrown together without much coherence,

Nothing to be ashamed of - sounds a bit like my first essay collection from back in 2024.

Except that I've been recording my songs since 1994...

[sasasha]

A long and complicated song is coming together, at last.

Congrats! I want to hear it. Whenever it is ready or when it has mated, etc.

[alice]

"song" is admittedly glorifying it somewhat; there won't be any vocals, for a start, although it really needs some.

[Raphael]

No new writing, but I got a few new ideas for my attempted novel recently. This is apparently related to the way I read and listened to some writing advice. Interestingly enough, even though there are major aspects of that advice that I disagree with or at least am skeptical about, it still somehow got some creative parts of my brain working.

[rotting bones]

No new writing, but I got a few new ideas for my attempted novel recently. This is apparently related to the way I read and listened to some writing advice. Interestingly enough, even though there are major aspects of that advice that I disagree with or at least am skeptical about, it still somehow got some creative parts of my brain working.

Regarding writing advice, I usually look for inspiration. If I agree with the advice fully, I'd just be following an algorithm. Inspiration often raises questions to which I can supply the answer myself.

With that in mind, the fourth part of the Derek Banas series went into amazing detail: https://youtu.be/0W6IhL3rcFo

Which ones helped you the most?

[Raphael]

Which ones helped you the most?

It's a bit difficult to tell. Strictly speaking, none of them are really exactly what I was looking for - I already have the basic idea for the story, I already have a pretty clear mental image of how my protagonist is supposed to be like as a person, and I have a very rough conception of the general plot development. My challenge right now is mainly to fill the couple of weeks in the characters' lives during which the story should be set with events, hopefully enough events to fill a lot of pages.

That said, watching parts of these videos, and reading parts of related texts, nudged my brain in various directions, mainly by making me ask myself questions like, "How does what I have so far compare with what these people say I should do?", and that somehow made me come up with more ideas than I had come up with in a while. Although I'm fairly skeptical about the whole basic Save the Cat structure.

[rotting bones]

It's a bit difficult to tell. Strictly speaking, none of them are really exactly what I was looking for - I already have the basic idea for the story, I already have a pretty clear mental image of how my protagonist is supposed to be like as a person, and I have a very rough conception of the general plot development. My challenge right now is mainly to fill the couple of weeks in the characters' lives during which the story should be set with events, hopefully enough events to fill a lot of pages.

The events come from what I believe the industry calls "stakes and conflicts". Think of a videogame that would hold your interest. The game genre is up to you. In that genre, design little minigames as an obstacle course for your characters to navigate.

Note that if the stakes are too low (wake up, brush teeth, etc), most readers will lose interest.

That said, watching parts of these videos, and reading parts of related texts, nudged my brain in various directions, mainly by making me ask myself questions like, "How does what I have so far compare with what these people say I should do?", and that somehow made me come up with more ideas than I had come up with in a while. Although I'm fairly skeptical about the whole basic Save the Cat structure.

This course is based on several books and movie scripts. A lot of it comes from John Truby. His book is based on the Hero's Journey, which I'm very skeptical of.

[Ares Land]

This course is based on several books and movie scripts. A lot of it comes from John Truby. His book is based on the Hero's Journey, which I'm very skeptical of.

Same here; I'm really skeptical of the Hero's Journey.
John Truby's book isn't a bad one, especially for getting started -- but I think is structure is ultimately narrow and artificial.

[Raphael]

I think I now have a relatively detailed plan for what should happen from July 19th to August 10th. Next step might be trying to get the same for the time from August 11th to August 29th. August 30th is supposed to be a sort of epilogue day, and I already know sort of what I want to happen then.

[Raphael]

Creative process question to whoever might think they have an answer. A bit spoiler-y, so behind a cut.

More: show

As I said, I now have a mostly complete plan for day-by-day events during the part of the plot that takes part from July 19th to August 10th, and a very, very short idea, something that could well be summed up in a few sentences, for what should happen from August 11th to August 29th, with a little bit of aftermath planned for August 30th.

Should I

1) start writing the July 19th to August 10th part right away, and then worry about the rest of the story later, either once I've reached August 10th, or maybe in between during the time I'm writing, or

2) try my best to come up with an equally detailed plan for the time from August 11th to August 29th first, and only do any serious writing once I've managed that?

What do you think?

[zompist]

Creative process question to whoever might think they have an answer.

Unfortunately, there is no one answer. It depends on whether you're a pantser or a plotter. There are examples of both among great novelists.

A pantser goes "by the seat of their pants"-- that is, by instinct, with no plan, working it out as they write. A plotter has to work it out first, creating at the least an outline of events that fill out the book. (If you remember Forster, you don't have a plot unless events interrelate: x happens because of y.)

[Raphael]

Thank you. I'm generally a plotter, I've already done some plotting, and the question is whether to work out the parts that are already plotted first, or plot everything first.

[zompist]

Thank you. I'm generally a plotter, I've already done some plotting, and the question is whether to work out the parts that are already plotted first, or plot everything first.

There's something to be said for doing what you're excited about. If you look forward to writing the first part of the book, it's fine to just do that.

My intuition is that you should however have more ideas about the 2nd half than a few sentences. A Wikipedia-style plot summary is fine. The problem is that without that, you might have not 1/2 the book planned, but 1/3 or 1/4. Plus, what the book is about tends to become clearer in the last parts.

But, there's another nuance: is your story episodic, or more of a unity? It's hard to give examples when I don't know what we've both read, but (say) The Hobbit is episodic... or of course so is an old-style TV show. Stuff happens and once enough does, the book is over. But (say) a murder mystery is a unity: there is a problem to solve and that's what the book is about. A mystery can meander a bit at the start, but not too much.

[Raphael]

There's something to be said for doing what you're excited about. If you look forward to writing the first part of the book, it's fine to just do that.

My intuition is that you should however have more ideas about the 2nd half than a few sentences. A Wikipedia-style plot summary is fine. The problem is that without that, you might have not 1/2 the book planned, but 1/3 or 1/4. Plus, what the book is about tends to become clearer in the last parts.

Thank you. Sounds like a case for splitting the difference somehow.

But, there's another nuance: is your story episodic, or more of a unity? It's hard to give examples when I don't know what we've both read, but (say) The Hobbit is episodic... or of course so is an old-style TV show. Stuff happens and once enough does, the book is over. But (say) a murder mystery is a unity: there is a problem to solve and that's what the book is about. A mystery can meander a bit at the start, but not too much.

More unity than episodic, for sure. There are a few different plotlines, but they're generally simultaneous, not sequential. There's one main task, one smaller task, and that's about it.

[alice]

All four outstanding songs now have workable arangements. This means that not much remains beyond merely playing the bits over and over again until they sound right.

[sasasha]

All four outstanding songs now have workable arangements. This means that not much remains beyond merely playing the bits over and over again until they sound right.

That’s great!

Any chance of hearing them, or are these private enterprises?