The Computer And General Tech Thread - Software, Hardware, Questions, etc.

[rotting bones]

But again, good public libraries do exist in the world and there should be a lot more of them.

They can exist for a while, until the fascists win for the reasons I've tried to explain.

I used to work for a library that offered access to paywalled resources to its readers, for the price of a library card, so these things do exist.

Publicly funded libraries here won't have the money to stock the latest research (especially if they're being funded by fascists). If I don't get to study things that are regarded as important, that reduces my motivation to support the left. I don't understand why the contemporary left insists on taking positions that reduce the motivation of their base. Even if the library somehow stocks the research I want, the inconvenience of jumping through hoops will be enough to deter most people from informing themselves. Why is it so hard to support the good and oppose the bad? In fact, I'd say that even if difficult policies are required, oversimplify wherever possible. Poor people don't have the spare time to understand your policy or how it's helping them.

[MacAnDàil]

Public libraries have existed continuously for centuries. They don't take up that much space. Even with a dozen libraries, Saint-Denis has much more shops and houses.

Also, the uni library offers cheap access to as much as you want for those who work and free for those who don't.

Acces is only on filling out a simple A5 form.

Your main objection to public libraries appears to not actually be to them but to the Modi government, which is objectionable.

[rotting bones]

Public libraries have existed continuously for centuries.

Fascism is a fairly recent phenomenon.

They don't take up that much space. Even with a dozen libraries, Saint-Denis has much more shops and houses.

India has the largest population in the world. The edge of the city is crowded by this point.

Also, the uni library offers cheap access to as much as you want for those who work and free for those who don't.

How will everyone find a university that offers outsiders free access? This may be standard practice in the West, but the engineering college where I completed my Bachelor's degree didn't offer outsiders any access. It barely had any books that were useful for students.

[Ares Land]

I don't understand why the contemporary left insists on taking positions that reduce the motivation of their base. Even if the library somehow stocks the research I want, the inconvenience of jumping through hoops will be enough to deter most people from informing themselves. Why is it so hard to support the good and oppose the bad? In fact, I'd say that even if difficult policies are required, oversimplify wherever possible. Poor people don't have the spare time to understand your policy or how it's helping them.

What is your proposal then? How do you suggest we fix this?

[rotting bones]

I don't understand why the contemporary left insists on taking positions that reduce the motivation of their base. Even if the library somehow stocks the research I want, the inconvenience of jumping through hoops will be enough to deter most people from informing themselves. Why is it so hard to support the good and oppose the bad? In fact, I'd say that even if difficult policies are required, oversimplify wherever possible. Poor people don't have the spare time to understand your policy or how it's helping them.

What is your proposal then? How do you suggest we fix this?

Government support for artists. Let information be free.

Don't we have better things to do than stopping poor people from educating themselves?

[Ares Land]

Government support for artists. Let information be free.

Don't we have better things to do than stopping poor people from educating themselves?

I entirely agree with government support for artists. I also believe have a moral say in how their creation is used and also the right to live from their art, through selling concert tickets or books and so on. This is a place where intellectual property is useful.

Government support is essential but you can't rely on government support only, because it means the government gets to decide which artists starve. What if the government is fascist?
Less dramatically, at a point the government may just feel that it spends too much on culture (for whatever reason).

[rotting bones]

Government support for artists. Let information be free.

Don't we have better things to do than stopping poor people from educating themselves?

I entirely agree with government support for artists. I also believe have a moral say in how their creation is used and also the right to live from their art, through selling concert tickets or books and so on. This is a place where intellectual property is useful.

Government support is essential but you can't rely on government support only, because it means the government gets to decide which artists starve. What if the government is fascist?
Less dramatically, at a point the government may just feel that it spends too much on culture (for whatever reason).

Under my proposal, information produced on government dime will be free. Information produced for commercial consumption will be paywalled by default.

Which artists the government supports is determined by direct vote. Artists dropped by the voters can always switch to paid consumers.

The important point is: Information that voters think are important will be free. If voters don't think it's important, there's no point having it be free.

Note: I say artists, but researchers are also included in this approach. If the research is essential, the government is also allowed to seize the means of production if the voters okay it. (Voters are allowed to appoint experts to make such decisions and recall them if they are disappointed by their performance.)

[Ares Land]

Under my proposal, information produced on government dime will be free. Information produced for commercial consumption will be paywalled by default.

Which artists the government supports is determined by direct vote. Artists dropped by the voters can always switch to paid consumers.

The important point is: Information that voters think are important will be free. If voters don't think it's important, there's no point having it be free.

Note: I say artists, but researchers are also included in this approach. If the research is essential, the government is also allowed to seize the means of production if the voters okay it. (Voters are allowed to appoint experts to make such decisions and recall them if they are disappointed by their performance.)

I don't disagree with that. I'd point out that public media already exists (in India as well? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prasar_Bharati. Is it any good?)

Speaking of research, there is a huge problem there and I do believe Elsevier and al deserve a long painful death.

[rotting bones]

Under my proposal, information produced on government dime will be free. Information produced for commercial consumption will be paywalled by default.

Which artists the government supports is determined by direct vote. Artists dropped by the voters can always switch to paid consumers.

The important point is: Information that voters think are important will be free. If voters don't think it's important, there's no point having it be free.

Note: I say artists, but researchers are also included in this approach. If the research is essential, the government is also allowed to seize the means of production if the voters okay it. (Voters are allowed to appoint experts to make such decisions and recall them if they are disappointed by their performance.)

I don't disagree with that. I'd point out that public media already exists (in India as well? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prasar_Bharati. Is it any good?)

Speaking of research, there is a huge problem there and I do believe Elsevier and al deserve a long painful death.

Public media exists, but voters don't get to determine which media should be free.

Very little media is good in India. You have to exert a lot of effort to find it. DD is lowest common denominator TV programming.

[Ares Land]

Public media exists, but voters don't get to determine which media should be free.

Maybe it's elitism, but this is the last area where I'd want to see direct democracy.

I'm fairly happy about public media here and I wouldn't want to see it run by direct vote; not in a country that's willing to give 60% of the vote to Le Pen.

[MacAnDàil]

Please take into account that the poorest of the poor have no computers etc. They would not therefore benefit from unpaywalling anything. They would benefit from free access to anything in the building (as well as any public computer and any subscription on it).

Also, the vote determining government support may mean unfunding essential research because the public may be unaware of what research exists and is important.

I would say all research is important so at least minimum wage on top of any existing earnings if you produce any research.

[Travis B.]

Also, the vote determining government support may mean unfunding essential research because the public may be unaware of what research exists and is important.

This is the problem with funding things directly by vote in a naive fashion. For instance, the kernel that a majority of cell phones and the vast majority of servers use, the Linux kernel, would likely go unfunded simply because the average person hasn't a clue as to what it is and thus would not vote for it.

If you are going to fund things by vote, you need to have funding dependencies -- where people funding their cell phone means funding Android means funding the Linux kernel, and likewise people funding their favorite websites means funding their server OS'es means funding Linux distributions means funding the Linux kernel.

[Ares Land]

Also, the vote determining government support may mean unfunding essential research because the public may be unaware of what research exists and is important.

And I'd add the same thing about art. I really like what they put on Arte. 80% of what they make availabe is stuff I didn't know existed or didn't realize was important, and that's just the way I like it.

[zompist]

Please take into account that the poorest of the poor have no computers etc. They would not therefore benefit from unpaywalling anything.

This might be a bit out of date: even people in Africa have mobile phones.

[zompist]

Which artists the government supports is determined by direct vote. Artists dropped by the voters can always switch to paid consumers.

The important point is: Information that voters think are important will be free. If voters don't think it's important, there's no point having it be free.

This sounds like the proposal of someone who has never tried to make art, much less make a living at it. We've talked about this before; it's sad that a "leftist" simply cannot acknowledge that art is work and artists are workers. I dunno, probably you think writers, who typically make less money than a fast food clerk, are rich oppressors or maybe wards of the state like the mentally ill.

I was just reading about a woman who took 18 years to write her first novel. This is not atypical, she had a day job. But every artist starts out a nobody, and it may take years to produce something other people can look at.

The voting part means that, even more than in a market, the rich will get richer and the poor artists will starve. If the voting public as a whole knows a hundred living writers I'd be surprised.

I think this problem can be solved— I just described an anarchist country that supports artists over on my Patreon— but your proposal is worse than the market we have today.

Note: I say artists, but researchers are also included in this approach. If the research is essential, the government is also allowed to seize the means of production if the voters okay it.

Ah cool, you also want to destroy research, in fact by the same methods Elon Musk used.

I'm not hostile to your voting approach when it comes to grains or TV sets or such. But like most utopian conworlders, you say that things will happen in a certain way because you want it to. People are cogs in a system and must behave like the machinery you allow them to be. You don't think about what a human living under your system would think or feel. Who would want to be a researcher when the government can withdraw funding on a whim, or steal it for themselves if it seems about to be useful? Researchers will pack up and move to a country where research is respected as a common good.

[zompist]

If you are going to fund things by vote, you need to have funding dependencies -- where people funding their cell phone means funding Android means funding the Linux kernel, and likewise people funding their favorite websites means funding their server OS'es means funding Linux distributions means funding the Linux kernel.

This is a very good point, but it's even worse than that. People don't understand ongoing development. If they even understand what the Linux kernel is, they'd say "That already exists, why do we have to keep paying for it?"

[MacAnDàil]

Please take into account that the poorest of the poor have no computers etc. They would not therefore benefit from unpaywalling anything.

This might be a bit out of date: even people in Africa have mobile phones.

Sure, but not necessarily the children who break their backs digging out cobalt and other minerals for the mobile phones.

[MacAnDàil]

Also, the vote determining government support may mean unfunding essential research because the public may be unaware of what research exists and is important.

And I'd add the same thing about art. I really like what they put on Arte. 80% of what they make availabe is stuff I didn't know existed or didn't realize was important, and that's just the way I like it.

Indeed, art and research heavily involve novelty so even those in the fields would not know to support the best next things. Why not just support everyone doing anything reasonable in these fields?

[Raphael]

I just did my first ever emptying of a waste toner container. What's annoying is that I had misunderstood the printer's error message and therefore initially ordered new toner cartridges before I really needed them. But I managed to sort it all out in the end. Phew.

[Travis B.]

I just did my first ever emptying of a waste toner container. What's annoying is that I had misunderstood the printer's error message and therefore initially ordered new toner cartridges before I really needed them. But I managed to sort it all out in the end. Phew.

Did your printer report PC LOAD LETTER?