Conspiracies/Contact Influence/Conservatism in sound change.

[foxcatdog]

If you compare any modern english word to a modern german word you will notice they are quite similar. Yet if you look at any proto germanic word you will notice a bunch of extra syllables which have been lost in both. North germanic languages are similar although they share some differences but they also developed similarly.

Similarly the changes between insular celtic languages and modern romance languages show lots of intervocalic lenition are similar and these branches are believed to be related. Similarly most modern uralic languages have voiced stops in their native vocabulary even languages outside the european area (Nenets but again every samoyedic language shares common developments from proto samoyedic).

Slavic is similar (only the oldest attested slavic languages still has its yers, the language had a total lack of open syllable besides ones which developed into open syllables in every slavic language the V+liquid ones yet slavic languages are noted for their impenetrable clusters).

Granted all these languages save for the uralic ones belong to the same family (indo european) and they are all wildly different. But compare nearly any other language family and you will note they all share common developments (*θ > *l and to a lesser degree *l > *n in algonquian). Even all modern indo-european languages lack laryngeals. However note indo-european languages are spoken over a very wide area compared to other languages, even during their prehistory which loops into the idea of languages being influenced by substrates/contact. Other examples include similarities in developments in polynesian languages (for example *s > *h in almost every one of them), prevalance of say *t > *k in oceanic compared to other families (I also noted almost every language merges *l and *r when looking over proto oceanic cognates in the books on oceanic cognates. Similarly to my knowledge every Athabascan language has the same stop system.

This also applies to grammar see the lack of case in modern indo-european languages (phonologically motivated), finnish being typologically odd for european languages, romance languages having more verb forms (this is also phonologically motivated).

Also if you look at finnic you will note finnish is the odd language but its oddness is due to conservation of features (lack of voicing distinction/palatisation).

So what do you think? It lends to the idea that when developing a fictional language family most of the members should be similar and have similar developments except for some more conservative members/members in different linguistic areas. This can also be helpful to the word evolution game for example when introducing a new word we might want to give the syllable structure and phonology + general number of syllables in the language so members can at least see which changes may be more phonologically motivated initially.

[Richard W]

In quite a few cases, parallel developments are due to common causes, such as strong expiratory stress in Germanic promoting the loss of endings. Some changes are areal, such as East Asian tonogenesis, or the uvularisation of West European /r/.

[alice]

In quite a few cases, parallel developments are due to common causes, such as strong expiratory stress in Germanic promoting the loss of endings.

Lass, in Old English: A Historical Linguistic Companion, points out that Finnish (going by memory here) has expiratory stress "at least as strong as German/English" but no tendency to reduction of final syllables, so don't take this for granted.

[Zju]

What is expiratory stress?

[Travis B.]

In quite a few cases, parallel developments are due to common causes, such as strong expiratory stress in Germanic promoting the loss of endings.

Lass, in Old English: A Historical Linguistic Companion, points out that Finnish (going by memory here) has expiratory stress "at least as strong as German/English" but no tendency to reduction of final syllables, so don't take this for granted.

The people here on Reddit claim that stress in Finnish is mostly a matter of loudness and pitch, and does not really affect length, whereas stress in English at least definitely has an impact on length (and even though I am not a native speaker, I bet German is the same here); this could explain the tendency towards reduction and elision in Germanic, and the lack thereof in Finnish.

[Richard W]

In quite a few cases, parallel developments are due to common causes, such as strong expiratory stress in Germanic promoting the loss of endings.

Lass, in Old English: A Historical Linguistic Companion, points out that Finnish (going by memory here) has expiratory stress "at least as strong as German/English" but no tendency to reduction of final syllables, so don't take this for granted.

Yes, a lot of these causes predispose rather than predetermine.

[bradrn]

The discussion reminds me of this very interesting dissertation, which simulates (!) the repeated feedback look of imperfect perception and sound production. I think figures 5.4 and 5.5 are most interesting: when applied to the vowels in a simple system of monosyllabic roots with suffixed vowels, it turns out that the eventual outcome depends on how predictable each vowel is (or conversely, how much information it carries in terms of identifying distinct morphemes). If both vowels are informative, the simulation produces either no change or vowel harmony; if one vowel is much more informative than the other, it produces either suffix vowel loss or mutation in the root vowel. Of course this is only a simulation but it matches what I’d intuitively expect.

[WeepingElf]

What is expiratory stress?

Stress characterized by increased air pressure from the lungs, if I have understood it correctly.

[Ketsuban]

Not to be confused with expiatory stress, the emphasis your priest puts on atoning for your sins.

[alice]

Not to be confused with expiatory stress, the emphasis your priest puts on atoning for your sins.

So loss of /r/ in some intervocalic contexts is due to supernatural influence?