The Elvenpath

[WeepingElf]

Why Utah, and why Gary, Indiana? Utah especially doesn't strike me as a place that would be particularly attractive to Elves. And Gary, Indiana, well, all I know of it is that there are many African Americans there.

Utah because of the Mormons, being attractive to multiple flavors of that tradition (with beliefs and practices people find varying degrees of bizarre). Gary has a reputation of sort of being the Cleveland of Indiana—memetically it’s a miserable place that doesn’t appreciate outsiders.

The Mormons, as far as I can tell, are quite far from the beliefs of the Elves. I have heard that Utah is one of the most conservative places in the United States. And Gary, if it is a miserable place that doesn't appreciate outsiders, would also be a place to avoid for the Elves.

[alice]

Yes. There still are some Elves in Glastonbury now; also in Notting Hill, Haight-Ashbury and Amsterdam. Elves played a role in fomenting the hippie counterculture.

Aha! That explains some of the Rather Strange People we met in Glastonbury when we were on holiday a few years ago.

I've never been in Glastonbury, but I have heard that it attracts various sorts of strange people (not all to the liking of the Elves, though).

Among others, the kind of people who run bookshops selling things like Programming The Human Bio-Computer. Have a look at it on Google Maps, if you haven't already, to get a feel for some of the shops.

Gary has a reputation of sort of being the Cleveland of Indiana—memetically it’s a miserable place that doesn’t appreciate outsiders.

Michael Jackson was born there, although I don't know if this is connected.

[Raphael]

I've never been in Glastonbury, but I have heard that it attracts various sorts of strange people (not all to the liking of the Elves, though).

Among others, the kind of people who run bookshops selling things like Programming The Human Bio-Computer.

I'm a bit surprised. That book title sounds more like Silicon Valley to me.

[Axas mlö]

Yes, it goes back to that star, and while I don't like Fëanor, of course, the idea of a white eight-pointed star in a blue field as the Elven flag is old and deeply ingrained within me. I considered changing it several times, but could not come up with anything I liked better.

I understand. And I appreciate the disclaimer about Fëanor. Interesting character, not a likeable person. But your eight-pointed star flag looks good.

Regarding mythological sources of the stories: That's interesting, thank you.

[WeepingElf]

While I haven't yet been to Glastonbury (though I am thinking of travelling there some day), I have some ideas of what it is like, from TV documentaries about the Arthurian legend and such. You will have guessed that the places I picked for the Elves of today are all strongholds of the hippie counterculture; my fancy is that the Elven communities in those places were a kind of "seeds" around which the hippie counterculture crystallized, even though not everything in the hippie counterculture derives from Elven thinking and not everything was to the liking of the Elves (they were skeptical about such things as astrology or recreational drug use, for instance).

[rotting bones]

In what ways were the ancient Elves more progressive than neighboring nations? Are there non-cultural explanations as to why this might have been the case?

[WeepingElf]

The ancient Elves believed (and the Elves of today still believe) that God (whom they called Máná 'The One') created humans with a purpose, namely to protect and enrich the world by making new and beautiful things (after the Fays, who of course exist only in the beliefs of the people, had failed in that role - which also explains why the Fays are so hostile against humans: we remind them of their failure). To that purpose, they were created with free will, and the Elves believe that to fulfill their Purpose, people have to be free. Thus things like slavery or feudalism were anathema to them and abolished. The societal ideal was that of the self-employed artisan. The Commonwealth of the Elves was a democracy, more so than ancient Athens (where actually only a few percent of the population had the vote); the economic system was a kind of liberal socialism: the means of production (as we would say today) were to be owned by the workers, either individually or (for larger enterprises, such as ships or mines) collectively. There was some degree of free enterprise: every person had the right to start their own business according to their inclinations and abilities. Farmers, who owned the land they worked, had the double role of producing food and other organic materials, and tending the landscape. The Commonwealth of the Elves also was a welfare state: doctors and teachers were paid by the community and offered their services for free, and there was a poverty chest to help people who suffered from poverty, at least as long as it was not their own fault. (Of course, all that did not work as perfectly and smoothly in practice as in theory. The Elves are, after all, just humans with all their weaknesses.)

[Raphael]

I think what rotting bones was asking about was how and why the Elves ended up with such admirable features, not just what these admirable features were.

The ancient Elves believed (and the Elves of today still believe) that God (whom they called Máná 'The One')

And so, their operatives eventually inserted the name of their God, repeated once, into a popular children's TV show...

[WeepingElf]

I think what rotting bones was asking about was how and why the Elves ended up with such admirable features, not just what these admirable features were.

I understand. There was a "Great Reformation" in the early Iron Age that followed the "Iron Wars", a period of unrest and frequent warfare which began when the introduction of iron resulted in deadly weapons becoming more available and the old large chiefdoms of the Bronze Age breaking up into small warlord dominions. The Great Reformation originally was a religious renewal movement, but it soon accreted political aspects when it was picked up by commoners (farmers and artisans) and the "Artisans' and Farmers' League" was founded, which gained enough momentum for a revolution. The old institutions were just rotten and called for a radical change; the people were just fed up with the chaos and bloodshed of the Iron Wars (kind of how the terror of the world wars created a demand for European unification as a means of preventing further wars in Europe).

[Raphael]

I think what rotting bones was asking about was how and why the Elves ended up with such admirable features, not just what these admirable features were.

I understand. There was a "Great Reformation" in the early Iron Age that followed the "Iron Wars", a period of unrest and frequent warfare which began when the introduction of iron resulted in deadly weapons becoming more available and the old large chiefdoms of the Bronze Age breaking up into small warlord dominions. The Great Reformation originally was a religious renewal movement, but it soon accreted political aspects when it was picked up by commoners (farmers and artisans) and the "Artisans' and Farmers' League" was founded, which gained enough momentum for a revolution. The old institutions were just rotten and called for a radical change; the people were just fed up with the chaos and bloodshed of the Iron Wars (kind of how the terror of the world wars created a demand for European unification as a means of preventing further wars in Europe).

Thank you!

[alice]

While I haven't yet been to Glastonbury (though I am thinking of travelling there some day), I have some ideas of what it is like, from TV documentaries about the Arthurian legend and such.

Silliness aside, it's actually a nice little town in its own right and well worth a visit.

[rotting bones]

The ancient Elves believed (and the Elves of today still believe) that God (whom they called Máná 'The One') created humans with a purpose, namely to protect and enrich the world by making new and beautiful things (after the Fays, who of course exist only in the beliefs of the people, had failed in that role - which also explains why the Fays are so hostile against humans: we remind them of their failure). To that purpose, they were created with free will, and the Elves believe that to fulfill their Purpose, people have to be free. Thus things like slavery or feudalism were anathema to them and abolished. The societal ideal was that of the self-employed artisan. The Commonwealth of the Elves was a democracy, more so than ancient Athens (where actually only a few percent of the population had the vote); the economic system was a kind of liberal socialism: the means of production (as we would say today) were to be owned by the workers, either individually or (for larger enterprises, such as ships or mines) collectively. There was some degree of free enterprise: every person had the right to start their own business according to their inclinations and abilities. Farmers, who owned the land they worked, had the double role of producing food and other organic materials, and tending the landscape. The Commonwealth of the Elves also was a welfare state: doctors and teachers were paid by the community and offered their services for free, and there was a poverty chest to help people who suffered from poverty, at least as long as it was not their own fault. (Of course, all that did not work as perfectly and smoothly in practice as in theory. The Elves are, after all, just humans with all their weaknesses.)

I understand. There was a "Great Reformation" in the early Iron Age that followed the "Iron Wars", a period of unrest and frequent warfare which began when the introduction of iron resulted in deadly weapons becoming more available and the old large chiefdoms of the Bronze Age breaking up into small warlord dominions. The Great Reformation originally was a religious renewal movement, but it soon accreted political aspects when it was picked up by commoners (farmers and artisans) and the "Artisans' and Farmers' League" was founded, which gained enough momentum for a revolution. The old institutions were just rotten and called for a radical change; the people were just fed up with the chaos and bloodshed of the Iron Wars (kind of how the terror of the world wars created a demand for European unification as a means of preventing further wars in Europe).

Thank you. Do you have more information about the Fays? Is there a reason why the Elves are thought to be masters of glamour? Were they just good at Latin grammar?

[WeepingElf]

Thank you. Do you have more information about the Fays? Is there a reason why the Elves are thought to be masters of glamour? Were they just good at Latin grammar?

Three questions, of which the last one is silly.

First, some etymological notes. I use the term "Fays" to render the Old Albic word for such beings (pháná, from the PIE root *peh₂- 'to tend, protect', as they are guardian spirits of nature). The English word "fay" is a borrowing from Old French faye < Latin fata. "Elf", in contrast, is an old Germanic word (Old English ælf, Old Norse álfr etc.); its further etymological connections within the IE family are uncertain, but it seems to descend from the adjective *h₂elbhos 'white'. The Elves called themselves that way because they were more lightly pigmented (often having blond hair) than the previous inhabitants of the British Isles. I call the Elves "Elves" because I fancy them to be the historical nucleus in the Germanic and Insular Celtic notions of elves (old tales of a sophisticated people in the British Isles). Elves and fays are thus two different concepts which got mingled in the Middle Ages.

Now to your questions. The Fays are, according to Elvish mythology, spirits called into the world to guard it. They did not really succeed in that, which is why Máná created humans. The Elves were thought to be masters of glamour, as you put it, because they were culturally more advanced than other people in northwestern Europe, which seemed like magic. Of course, the classical Elves weren't good at Latin grammar, as in their time, Latin was just the dialect of a small landscape in Italy to which they had no closer connection.

[rotting bones]

Thank you. So the Elves had finer wares than others? What did they call themselves?

The legends of Elven (or do you prefer Elfin?) glamour arose at a time in which being educated meant "can read Latin", right?

Are the Fay similar to stories about the Fair Folk? https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheFairFolk

Are you planning to write a novel that's better for the future than Ministry for the Future?

[WeepingElf]

Thank you. So the Elves had finer wares than others? What did they call themselves?

The legends of Elven (or do you prefer Elfin?) glamour arose at a time in which being educated meant "can read Latin", right?

Are the Fay similar to stories about the Fair Folk? https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheFairFolk

Are you planning to write a novel that's better for the future than Ministry for the Future?

Questions, questions, questions.

The Elves especially had more advanced ships and were great mariners - such nautical terms as sail or mast appear to be loanwords from an unknown but probably IE language which I fancy to be Old Albic. They called themselves the Albé (singular Albá), hence the language name Old Albic, the Germanic Elf-word, and the Celtic name Albion for Britain - probably because they had lighter complexion than the previous inhabitants (Neolithic farmers) of the British Isles.

I strongly prefer Elven over Elfin, as the latter is more associated with the fairy elves of later folk tales. The term glamour indeed comes from grammar in the old sense of 'knowledge of Latin' (as in grammar school), which came to mean 'arcane knowledge, magic' in the minds of the common people. (Kind of like how the host consecration formula Hoc est corpus meum 'This is my body' was disfigured as hocus-pocus.)

The Elven beliefs of the Fays are not elaborated yet, but they will indeed be quite similar to Fair Folk stories, or the Greek tradition of nymphs (Medieval English texts translated nymphae as elfen). Guardian spirits of nature, you know.

And I am indeed planning to write a novel wherein the Elves help to advance the transition to a more sustainable way of life; whether it will be better than The Ministry for the Future, I can't say. (The Elves don't achieve it all by themselves, though. They are few and their resources limited, and serve only as a model for what we all can - and should - do. There will be an according closing remark to this point. I don't want to replicate C. S. Lewis's That Hideous Strength where a dystopian technocratic regime is ended not by popular uprising but by supernatural intervention. A deus ex machina like that usually is a sign that the author was out of his wits when it came to find a working conclusion.)

[Axas mlö]

The ancient Elves believed (and the Elves of today still believe) that God (whom they called Máná 'The One')

And so, their operatives eventually inserted the name of their God, repeated once, into a popular children's TV show...

Hah, nice