United States Politics Thread 47

[malloc]

I don't think there's a single person who thinks "I don't like Trump now but I'd sure support him if he attacked Venezuela."

Bush saw his support surge when he attacked Afghanistan and Iraq and cruised to reëlection. Granted people ultimately soured on the wars but that took many years. Several months ago when he struck Iran, I overheard someone say that they didn't particularly like Trump but thoroughly approved of the attack on Iran.

[Raphael]

I don't think there's a single person who thinks "I don't like Trump now but I'd sure support him if he attacked Venezuela."

Bush saw his support surge when he attacked Afghanistan and Iraq and cruised to reëlection. Granted people ultimately soured on the wars but that took many years. Several months ago when he struck Iran, I overheard someone say that they didn't particularly like Trump but thoroughly approved of the attack on Iran.

You seem to have a different understanding of the word "many" than I do. Besides, this time around, memories of how Iraq and Afghanistan turned out are still relatively fresh in people's minds.

[zompist]

Bush saw his support surge when he attacked Afghanistan and Iraq

Maybe you missed a little thing called 9/11.

[malloc]

Bush saw his support surge when he attacked Afghanistan and Iraq

Maybe you missed a little thing called 9/11.

Sure but the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were genuinely popular for years and Bush rode that popularity to considerable electoral victories. It wasn't until 2006 that people began to rethink their support and turn on the GOP with the Democrats finally winning in the midterms.

[alice]

What does Tr*mp think he could gain from invading Venezuela anyway? It's not like there's a convenient or credible bogeyman like Saddam or Osama there.

[zompist]

Bush saw his support surge when he attacked Afghanistan and Iraq

Maybe you missed a little thing called 9/11.

Sure but the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were genuinely popular for years

Because. Of. 9/11.

Bush was dealing with a genuinely traumatic terrorist attack which killed thousands of Americans. That shocked and angered Americans.

The Republicans have no such casus belli today. They keep pretending there are "emergencies" and national security threats from Venezuelans and talk show hosts and inflatable frogs, but no one outside their base is buying it.

[Raphael]

What does Tr*mp think he could gain from invading Venezuela anyway? It's not like there's a convenient or credible bogeyman like Saddam or Osama there.

They've had a nominally hard-left political leadership for decades. And, they're in Latin America. And Trump blames them for the existence of drug addiction.

[Travis B.]

What does Tr*mp think he could gain from invading Venezuela anyway? It's not like there's a convenient or credible bogeyman like Saddam or Osama there.

They've had a nominally hard-left political leadership for decades. And, they're in Latin America. And Trump blames them for the existence of drug addiction.

The thing is that few Americans today, MAGAts included, have an appetite for involvement in a new ground war anywhere. They may cheer when Trump carries out airstrikes, but there is a definite memory of the past ground wars that people really do not want to repeat.

[Raphael]

What does Tr*mp think he could gain from invading Venezuela anyway? It's not like there's a convenient or credible bogeyman like Saddam or Osama there.

They've had a nominally hard-left political leadership for decades. And, they're in Latin America. And Trump blames them for the existence of drug addiction.

The thing is that few Americans today, MAGAts included, have an appetite for involvement in a new ground war anywhere. They may cheer when Trump carries out airstrikes, but there is a definite memory of the past ground wars that people really do not want to repeat.

No disagreement. I wasn't siding with malloc. I was simply trying to answer alice's question.

[Travis B.]

They've had a nominally hard-left political leadership for decades. And, they're in Latin America. And Trump blames them for the existence of drug addiction.

The thing is that few Americans today, MAGAts included, have an appetite for involvement in a new ground war anywhere. They may cheer when Trump carries out airstrikes, but there is a definite memory of the past ground wars that people really do not want to repeat.

No disagreement. I wasn't siding with malloc. I was simply trying to answer alice's question.

I know you weren't siding with malloc, but was just stating that Trump's potential casus belli is one that few Americans have bought into. Here in the US I see very few people cheering "let's go bomb Venezuela" much the less "let's carry out regime change in Venezuela". But considering that Trump seems to be losing it he may not realize this.

[Raphael]

I'll also note that, when the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars started, the, from the perspective of that time, most recent major ground war the USA had taken part in, the 1991 Golf War, had been a war that was generally seen as a success for the USA. Today the, from our perspective, most recent ground wars the USA has taken part in were the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars, which were usually not seen as successes.

But considering that Trump seems to be losing it he may not realize this.

As I wrote a few posts ago, I think Trump's mental decline might mean that his instincts on this matter aren't as reliable as they used to be any more.

[Raphael]

*chuckle*

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cdjr4xw83eko

[malloc]

*chuckle*

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cdjr4xw83eko

Laugh now, but this could easily turn his political fortunes around. His biggest problem thus far has been the continuing inflation fueled by his tariffs. Eliminating them would greatly reduce inflation and boost his popularity considerably. Quite honestly he seems poised for a comeback after the past few weeks of setbacks.

And yes, I realize that sounds like doomerism but the past election has destroyed any faith I have that Trump will ever lose popularity. He spent his entire first term unleashing one disaster after another and then attempted a coup after losing reëlection and ended up winning the next election by considerably more.

[Raphael]

OK. Well. I'm kind of still trying to sort out my thoughts on this. I'm posting this here, in the US Politics Thread, because it's mainly about events in the USA, but it touches strongly on a recent discussion in the German Politics Thread. So.

A non-Jewish German-born professor of Jewish Studies at Indiana University is apparently trying to turn the Jewish Studies program there into some kind of hard-right Likudnik/Kahanist stronghold. In the process, he's attacking various Jewish Jewish Studies students for being insufficiently anti-anti-semitic. Letters in support of him were written by two apparently (though I don't know this for sure) non-Jewish professors at German universities:

https://forward.com/news/783205/indiana ... er-israel/

Now, I know that, against the background of the Trump Administration's ongoing campaign to destroy higher education and end political dissent in the USA, none of this is even remotely funny. So I feel really bad about the fact that I kept laughing for much of the time I read the article. Really, the only way this would be better would be if, out of Messrs. Günther Jikeli, Olaf Glöckner, and Lars Rensmann, one of them would have had the given name "Jürgen".

Perhaps I should write a strongly worded letter to Leo XIV informing him about all the things he got insultingly wrong in his various takes on the finer points of Catholic theology now. Or apply to get hired to teach a graduate Women's Studies seminar in which I would try to convince a group of accomplished young feminist thinkers of the importance of completely cancelling, shunning, ostracising, and ending all memory of Margaret Atwood for being so lukewarm in her opposition to the Patriarchy.

In my defense, I think there is something very darkly funny about a bunch of German academics trying to demonstrate how well and eagerly they've learned the important lessons of Germany's horrible past, especially the "Never Again!"-part, by signing up as henchmen for the Trump Administration's project of installing full-fledged fascism in the USA.

Oh, and the icing on this particular shitty cake? Judging from some entries in the guy's list of publications, he's apparently an AI fanboy, too: https://isca.indiana.edu/about/our-team ... nther.html

[Travis B.]

I always roll my eyes when non-Jews attack Jews for being insufficiently supportive of Israel...

[Raphael]

I always roll my eyes when non-Jews attack Jews for being insufficiently supportive of Israel...

Not just that. It's also Germans trying to demonstrate their "We have really learned all the right lessons from our past, pinky swear"-bona fides by signing up as enforcers for a regime supported by a grassroots movement of social media shitposters who love gas chamber memes.

[Travis B.]

I'm seeing complaining on the Internet about "Jewish anti-Semites" where, of course, anti-Semitism is effectively defined as opposition to Israel rather than prejudice against Jews, so hence Jews are naturally "anti-Semites" if they are opposed to what the Israeli gov't has been doing to the Palestinians...

[Raphael]

I'm seeing complaining on the Internet about "Jewish anti-Semites"

Nothing in itself wrong with that term. As I told you before, there are definitely misogynistic women, too. I just think that these days it makes more sense to apply the term to people like Yair Netanyahu or Tzipi Hotolevi than to their respective Jewish critics.

[Travis B.]

I'm seeing complaining on the Internet about "Jewish anti-Semites"

Nothing in itself wrong with that term. As I told you before, there are definitely misogynistic women, too. I just think that these days it makes more sense to apply the term to people like Yair Netanyahu or Tzipi Hotolevi than to their respective Jewish critics.

The problem is with "Jewish anti-Semites" being identified as such on the basis of their opposition to Israeli policy rather than any actual hatred towards other Jews.

And yeah, from a quick googling of Yair Netanyahu I can see how one might call him a "Jewish anti-Semite" with his association with definite anti-Semites amongst the American far right.

Edit: I somehow missed the part where Yair Netanyahu posted real live anti-Semitic memes...

[Travis B.]

I would say that if you engage in spreading anti-Semitic memes, regardless of your ethnicity or your point of view on Israel/Palestine, you're an anti-Semite, even if you are the son of the Israeli PM or are the Israeli ambassador to the UK.