Re: Vardelm's Scratchpad (NP: Devani OVS order)

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Re: Vardelm's Scratchpad (NP: Yokai Sentence Basics)

Post by Vardelm »

So..... maybe probably scrap that whole last post?

I want to use body part based adpositions for Yokai, and writing the above posts made me realize I need to do a bit more planning on how those will work & fit in with the system above, or something similar to it.


The main decision point right now: do I want to use a locative case in combination with body parts, or just have them use the associative/genitive/attributive case?


For the below examples, I'll use my "adjectival" forms from the concord tables above as the locative form. This is something I'm actually considering if I do use a locative case.


With a locative case:

shengromai madubiure jenangshiol chiunoni aidaijina zhunkhaine

shengro-ma-i
castle-C14-ASC
madu-biu-re
belly-C11-LOC
jenang-shi-ol
queen-C02-POS
chiun-on-i
loyal-C05-ASC
aidaijina
guards.PLR.C05.DIR
zhunkha-ine
feast-VRB


The queen's loyal guards in the castle feasted.


Using the associative case (genitive or general attributive):

shengromai madubi jenangshiol chiunoni aidaijina zhunkhaine

shengro-ma-i
castle-C14-ASC
madu-b-i
belly-C11-ASC
jenang-shi-ol
queen-C02-POS
chiun-on-i
loyal-C05-ASC
aidaijina
guards.PLR.C05.DIR
zhunkha-ine
feast-VRB


The queen's loyal guards in the castle feasted.

The locative version is pretty straight-forward since it's just "at belly", meaning "in". The associative version works more like Zapotec, although there I'm not sure there's any kind of case used. Here, the noun class also plays a part in that - for a locative meaning - "belly" does not concord with the head noun "guard". Attributive uses DO show concordance, and in this case will also probably move their position.

Attributive for comparison:

jenangshiol chiunoni shengroni madubi aidaijina zhunkhaine

jenang-shi-ol
queen-C02-POS
chiun-on-i
loyal-C05-ASC
shengro-n-i
castle-C05-ASC
madu-on-i
belly-C05-ASC
aidaijina
guards.PLR.C05.DIR
zhunkha-ine
feast-VRB


The queen's loyal guards in the castle feasted.

Yeah, that a SUPER arbitrary example. I guess the guards protect ... the castle's belly? Or maybe it's just that they guard parts that are the castle's interior. However, the example shows the point about the marking at least.
Last edited by Vardelm on Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Vardelm's Scratchpad (NP: Yokai Sentence Basics)

Post by keenir »

Vardelm wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:39 pmjenangshiol chiunoni shengroni maduoni aidaijina zhunkhaine
jenang-shi-ol
queen-C02-POS
chiun-on-i
loyal-C05-ASC
shengro-n-i
castle-C05-ASC
madu-on-i
belly-C05-ASC
aidaijina
guards.PLR.C05.DIR
zhunkha-ine
feast-VRB

The queen's loyal castle-belly guards in the castle feasted.

Yeah, that a SUPER arbitrary example. I guess the guards protect ... the castle's belly? Or maybe it's just that they guard parts that are the castle's interior. However, the example shows the point about the marking at least.
*nods*

Would the "belly" portion move to another part of the statement, if, say, we wanted to focus on the location of the feast (inside the castle), rather than where the guards were posted prior to the feast? (maybe "in the castle-belly" instead?)

thank you. keep up the great work.
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Re: Vardelm's Scratchpad (NP: Yokai Sentence Basics)

Post by Vardelm »

keenir wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:56 pm Would the "belly" portion move to another part of the statement, if, say, we wanted to focus on the location of the feast (inside the castle), rather than where the guards were posted prior to the feast? (maybe "in the castle-belly" instead?)
So far, I have no idea! :D I have a bit about focus in the other languages here (notably Dwarven), so I'll probably get to that at some point. Still hammering out basic stuff.

keenir wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:56 pm thank you. keep up the great work.
Thank YOU, and I'll see what I can do!
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Re: Vardelm's Scratchpad (NP: Yokai Sentence Basics)

Post by Vardelm »

And the winner is...... LOCATIVE CASE!

The syntax feels just a little easier (for me) to manage if I have a locative case vs. parsing the context to make sure it works. Some of the languages I'm using as inspiration also have locative cases, too. Finally, I like having another form that will be regularly used that has a different suffix ending. That breaks things up and is a bit more aesthetically pleasing to me. To that end I'm going ahead & using the adjectival form.

I think I'll be using "associative" instead of "genitive" as well. Thanks, Bradrn!

So, this example is what I would currently consider "correct":

shengromai madubiure jenangshiol chiunoni aidaijina zhunkhaine

shengro-ma-i
castle-C14-ASC
madu-biu-re
belly-C11-LOC
jenang-shi-ol
queen-C02-POS
chiun-on-i
loyal-C05-ASC
aidaijina
guards.PLR.C05.DIR
zhunkha-ine
feast-VRB


The queen's loyal guards in the castle feasted.



Also, the associative will be used for the participle instead of the prior adjectival/similative/semblative. To return to & update these examples:

tonglaosha dzulasha.

tonglao-sha
tiger-C04
dzula-sha
slept-C04

The tiger slept.

tonglaosha dzulashai indusha.

tonglao-sha
tiger-C04
dzula-sha-i
sleeping-C04-ASC
indu-sha
is-C04.VRB

The tiger is sleeping.

dzulashai tonglaosha...

dzula-sha-i
sleeping-C04-ASC
tonglao-sha
tiger-C04

The sleeping tiger...
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Re: Vardelm's Scratchpad (NP: Yokai Sentence Basics)

Post by keenir »

Vardelm wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:18 pm And the winner is...... LOCATIVE CASE!
excellent!
So, this example is what I would currently consider "correct":

shengromai madubiure jenangshiol chiunoni aidaijina zhunkhaine

shengro-ma-i
castle-C14-ASC
madu-biu-re
belly-C11-LOC
jenang-shi-ol
queen-C02-POS
chiun-on-i
loyal-C05-ASC
aidaijina
guards.PLR.C05.DIR
zhunkha-ine
feast-VRB


The queen's loyal guards in the castle feasted.
splendid.

great work on this and the other demonstrations of this conlang

ps: I assume that "C14 and such, are the cases from the previous page...or am i incorrect? thank you
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Re: Vardelm's Scratchpad (NP: Yokai Sentence Basics)

Post by Vardelm »

keenir wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:35 am ps: I assume that "C14 and such, are the cases from the previous page...or am i incorrect? thank you
Yep. I'm using the convention C## since I haven't seen much in the way of noun classes in glossing, and I tend to like sticking with 3-character labels as to me it makes the gloss look more organized. C14 would thus be "noun class #14 (large objects, structures)".
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Re: Vardelm's Scratchpad (NP: Yokai Sentence Basics)

Post by Vijay »

Vardelm wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:01 am
bradrn wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:47 am (And if this bothers you I advise you particularly to stay away from the literature on SVCs, which is mostly an endless sequence of, ‘Here’s what an SVC is!’ ‘No, this is how you define an SVC!’ ‘Here’s six types of SVC!’ ‘No, here’s four types of SVC!’ ‘English has no SVCs!’ ‘Oh yes it does!’ ‘SVCs aren’t real, I’ll call them “multiverb constructions” instead!’. I may be scarred for life by now…)
Yeah, I've had a hint of that earlier in this thread! :shock:
All this while I was drafting my lesson on SVCs in Malayalam :P
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Re: Vardelm's Scratchpad (NP: Yokai Sentence Basics)

Post by Vardelm »

1st cut on pronouns. I'll just leave this here without comment.


Yokai Personal Pronouns

Singular Plural
1P Familiar
(Humble)
Masculine akia akisan
Feminine ashu ashusan
Honorific Masculine akanim wakasanim
Feminine ashunim washusanim
2P Familiar Masculine kai
Feminine shao
Animate xaduo
Honorific Masculine kasong
Feminine shusong
Animate xadusong
3P Proximate Masculine ichen
Feminine ulim
Animate ansang
Inanimate tshazo tshazang
Obviative Masculine ichai
Feminine ulai
Animate ansai
Inanimate daizo daizang
Last edited by Vardelm on Sun May 16, 2021 7:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Vardelm's Scratchpad (NP: Yokai Sentence Basics)

Post by Vardelm »

Yokai Verb Voice

As mentioned in this post, Yokai is a direct/inverse language. The obviative pronouns in the prior post might have given that away as well. So, a little more on Yokai's verb voices.

Voice Affix Notes
Active
  • default, unmarked voice
  • intransitive
  • uses intransitive verb endings seen in noun concords
Direct g(a)
  • transitive
  • subject is higher on hierarchy than object
Inverse +an
  • transitive
  • object is higher on hierarchy than subject
Passive +amn(i)
  • intransitive
  • typical passive voice
  • subject is patient
  • uses intransitive verb endings seen in noun concords


Active Voice:
tonglaosha kiosha

tonglao-sha
tiger-C04
kio-sha
see-C04

The tiger sees/saw (something).


Direct Voice:
tonglaosha yolinsha kiogasha

tonglao-sha
tiger-C04
yolin-sha
gazelle-C04
kio-ga-sha
see-DIR-C04

The tiger saw the gazelle.

Notes:
  • Verbal concord is the same as intransitive concords when both subject & object are of the same noun class (I still need to work on concords for other combinations).
  • Since both actors are of the same noun class, word order determines which is subject & object.

Inverse Voice:
tonglaosha yolinsha kansha

tonglao-sha
tiger-C04
yolin-sha
gazelle-C04
k-an-sha
see-INV-C04

The gazelle saw the tiger.


Passive Voice:
yolinsha kamnisha

yolin-sha
gazelle-C04
k-amni-sha
see-PAS-C04

The gazelle was seen (by something).


So...... what's the animacy hierarchy in Yokai? Well, like relationships, it's complicated.

Stay tuned.
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Re: Vardelm's Scratchpad (NP: Yokai Speech Levels)

Post by Vardelm »

FINALLY!!!

Since my last post - almost 6 months ago! - I finished up my masters project for grad school, in mid-July. That took quite a bit of mental energy. Since then, I've been trying to work on affixes for Yokai moods & person agreement with very little success/progress. That is, until this past week. It took a while, but I managed to get back into the creative headspace I had when posting in the rest of this thread. I'm pretty excited that I finally have enough of Yokai's many interacting parts in place that I can present more of a complete picture of the language.


Yokai Speech Levels

So far, I've shown 2 major features of Yokai: noun classes/concords and direct/inverse alignment. The 3rd leg of the stool plays with both of those, which is speech levels. These are multiple levels of politeness distinctions that are very similar to Korean. The levels differ through the following:
  • politeness/formality affix on the verb
  • simple vs honorific 1st & 2nd person pronoun use
  • use vs non-use of 1st & 2nd person pronouns
  • hierarchy of 1st & 2nd person pronouns (direct/inverse voices)
  • verb ending particles
  • noun honorifics
  • observation of taboo speech

Broadly speaking, Yokai has 4 major speech levels, defined by the verb's politeness/formality affix. The affix also changes depending on the verb's mood. The table below shows the 3rd person affix for each mood.

Speech Level
Declaritive
Inferential
Subjunctive
Interrogative
Usage
Ceremonial
-ji-
-xu-
-hai-
-xol(u)-
The ceremonial level is used in highly formal settings, such as official functions performed by royalty or religious observances by priests. It includes a high level of politeness in addition to formality.
Formal
-de-
-seo-
-wa-
-siol(u)-
The formal is used where a degree of formality (surprise!) and politeness is needed, but not as much as the ceremonial. This includes interacting with elders, superiors, low/mid level officials, work colleagues in a formal setting, business transactions, & strangers.
Casual
-
-ru-
-yo-
-l(u)-
The casual appears in informal setting where the participants are well known to each other and there is no particular assertion of deference or superiority in social position.
Assertive
-kho-
-kho-
-zai-
-bi-
The assertive is used in casual or formal settings where the speaker projects social superiority over the addressee. This can be to lower social ranks or to children/students when giving them instruction, or even to lower social ranks and criminals when scolding/lecturing them.


Simple, right? But why would we want simple? :D

For each of those main speech levels, there are a number of sub-levels. Depending on the scholar studying the Yokai language, these might just be variations on the 4 main levels, or they might count as individual speech levels in their own right. They are defined by all the other factors besides the verb's mood/formality affix.

Speech
Level
1st P
Pronoun
2nd P
Pronoun
Subject
Pronoun
Taboos
Usage
Ceremonial
  • Courtly
Hon
Hon
1st
Yes
by royalty, high officials to each other with same/similar rank
  • Stately
Hon
Fam
1st
No
by royalty, high official making pronouncements
taboos set aside for official/ceremonial functions
  • Reverential
-
(not used)
Hon
2nd
Yes
to royalty, high officials, etc.
shows extreme deference
Formal
  • Deferential
Fam
Hon
2nd
Yes
to low/mid officials, superiors, elders
  • Proper
Hon
Hon
2nd
Yes
to strangers
to colleagues in formal setting
to customers
Casual
  • Polite
Fam
Hon
1st
Taboo addressee
Public
to colleagues, acquaintances
  • Simple
Fam
Fam
1st
Public
friends, relatives similar of age
by adults to children when comforting, having fun
  • Intimate
Fam
Fam
1st
No
to close friends & relatives
Assertive
  • Instructive
Hon
Fam
1st
Yes
to lower social rank
by teacher to students
by adults to children when instructing
  • Pejorative
Hon
-
(not used)
1st
Yes
to criminals
to lower social ranks when scolding/berating


EDIT: adding a bit more description.
  • For 1st & 2nd pronouns, Fam is "familiar" and Hon is "honorific". The term "familiar" might be backwards from languages that makes the distinction. Familiar implies "I am not claiming any status", and therefor is "humble". The 1st person honorific does "claim status".
  • Subject pronoun determines whether 1st or 2nd pronoun is the subject for a verb with the direct voice in a transitive sentence.
  • For Taboos, Taboo addressee means taboo speech is used only if the direct addressee is or includes someone in the taboo group, while Public means just that: only when in public.


That should provide a sketch of the speech levels. I still need to work on defining the usages more, but the basics are in. Also, I haven't even started on the verb & noun particles/honorifics, and I have just some basic thoughts on taboos so far. Some of the sub-levels may expand or disappear as I work on this, but I feel like this is a good starting point.

Next up will be affixes for concords in all speech levels, persons, and moods, which is what I've been trying to work on for the last 5+ months. Until I have all of that posted, I won't bother with examples sentences.
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Re: Vardelm's Scratchpad (NP: Yokai Verb Concords)

Post by Vardelm »

Yokai Verb Concords

This post will be mostly tables of morphology will little comment. I intend to go back and provide example sentences with commentary. There's so much here that I feel it's useful to just see all of the agreement suffixes together. Before getting to the affix tables, one aspect of the noun classes needs to be explained.



Noun Macro-Classes

I've mentioned the "noun macro-classes" before. These are classes that share similar plural forms in that they have common prefixes. They also share related semantic space. They are arranged according to the 5 traditional Chinese elements: water, wood, fire, earth, and metal. I describe these here just because some of the below tables refer to the macro-classes by name.


Noun Macro-Classes
Macro-Class Included Classes
Water 01 - low-caste women, aquatic wildlife
06 - fruit, aquatic plants, oceans, lakes, rivers
11 - hollow objects, containers,flexible objects
16 - events, time
21 - liquids, food
Wood 02 - women, birds
07 - deciduous plants & forests
12 - small objects
17 - states, qualities
22 - plant matter
Fire 03 - leaders, elders, reptiles
08 - flowers, seeds, leaves, deserts, volcanoes, sky, heavens
13 - insubstantial objects, man-made, random-shaped objects
18 - ideas, concepts, emotions
23 - coals, cinders, lava, smoke, flesh/meat
Earth 04 - men, furred animals, crawling insects
09 - grasses, mushrooms, vegetables, mountains, hills, plains, caves
14 - large objects, structures
19 - actions
24 - rock, stone, sand, dirt
Metal 01 - low-caste men, shelled, flying insects
06 - pines, cactus, pinecones, nuts, glaciers, tundra, grave
11 - tools, hard objects
16 - death, darkness
21 - metal, shell, crystal, ice





Verb Concords, Politeness, & Mood

In addition to the below tables, intransitive 3rd person verbs agree with their subject's noun class. The endings are already listed in the Noun Classes chart.


Mood & politeness
- 3rd person
- 1st & 2nd person intransitive
Declaritive
Inferential
Subjunctive
Interrogative
3P
-ji-
-xu-
-hai-
-xol(u)-
Ceremonial
2P
-jian
-xuen
-hun
-xolun
1P
-junkayo
-xunkayo
-hun
-xolun
3P
-de-
-seo-
-wa-
-siol(u)-
Formal
2P
-dan
-san
-won
-siolun
1P
-donyo
-siunyo
-won
-siolun
3P
-
-ru-
-yo-
-l(u)-
Casual
2P
-ming
-rong
-yang
-long
1P
-ng
-ng
-yang
-long
3P
-kho-
-kho-
-zai-
-bi-
Assertive
2P
-khang
-khang
-zeng
-be
1P
-khang
-khang
-zeng
-be


Notes:
  • 3rd person mood is indicated by a separate suffix. The same mostly appears with 1st & 2nd person, but have fused to some degree.
  • It would be nice to be able to merge cells for this table (rowspan & colspan). Since that's not available, you'll note that a number of cells have the same entry. Notably, 1st & 2nd person are the same in the subjunctive & interrogative.



Mood & politeness
- Transitive 1st vs 2nd person
Declaritive
Inferential
Subjunctive
Interrogative
Ceremonial
-jinyo
-xunyo
-hun
-xolun
Formal
-denyo
-seonyo
-won
-siolun
Casual
-nyo
-runyo
-yang
-long
Casual
-khang
-khang
-zeng
-be


Notes:
  • Endings are used on transitive verbs where the subject & object are 1st & 2nd person, regardless of which is which.



Transitive 3rd person vs 1st & 2nd person
3P Noun
Class
vs
1st Person
vs
2nd Person
Water animate
-yon
-ano
Wood animate
-yoshe
-anshe
Fire animate
-yua
-ayua
Earth animate
-yosha
-nsha
Metal animate
-yan
-ane
Water inanimate
-yoza
-anza
Wood inanimate
-ya
-anya
Fire inanimate
-yonka
-anka
Earth inanimate
-yoja
-anja
Metal inanimate
-yuna
-ana


Notes:
  • Endings are used on transitive verbs where there is a 3rd person referrent and either a 1st or 2nd person.
  • Animate almost always refers to noun classes 1-5 (of theh appropriate macro-class). Inanimate is for the other classes.



Transitive 3rd Person Animate vs 3rd Person Animate or Inanimate
Macro
Classes
Metal
Earth
Fire
Wood
Water
Water
-nan
-shon
-nga
-nshe
-no
Wood
-nshe
-sha
-shega
-she
Fire
-gen
-gasha
-(g)a
Earth
-shen
-sha
Metal
-(i)na


Notes:
  • Endings are used on transitive verbs where at least one of the subject or object is animate.
  • It's worth pointing out that when the subject & object are from the same noun class, the ending used is identical to the intransitive. The verb is still marked with the direct or indirect voice affix.



Transitive 3rd Person Inanimate vs 3rd Person Inanimate
Macro
Classes
Metal
Earth
Fire
Wood
Water
Water
-nza
-jaza
-zanka
-zai
-za
Wood
-inai
-eja
-enka
-e
Fire
-nken
-nkaja
-nka
Earth
-jan
-ja
Metal
-(i)na


Notes:
  • Endings are used on transitive verbs where both subject & object are inanimate.
  • I considered (and am still considering) having a table with animate vs inanimate, separate from animate vs animate. There's already a lot of agreement endings, so having just 1 animate seemed like a good cutoff. There may have been such a set of endings in the past, and this would show that the system is already starting to collapse a bit. Future languages could reduce to using just the macro-classes or stop marking for both subject & object. Plenty of good options.
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Re: Vardelm's Scratchpad (NP: Yokai Verb Concords)

Post by Rounin Ryuuji »

What would that look like in practice?
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Re: Vardelm's Scratchpad (NP: Yokai Verb Concords)

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Rounin Ryuuji wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:30 pm What would that look like in practice?
I assume you mean all of this, correct?

That's basically the next few posts. I don't have a set plan yet, but I'll probably start with just showing the basics of various transitive sentences in the declarative mood. Maybe then move on to the hierarchy for direct/inverse, and then to situations that would involve different views of politeness, etc. I foresee a bunch more work on how the noun classes really work in the society, so I'd guess this will change. I don't mind saying I don't have all of it worked out yet. This IS a scratchpad, after all. ;)
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Re: Vardelm's Scratchpad (NP: Yokai Verb Concords)

Post by Rounin Ryuuji »

Vardelm wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:39 pm
Rounin Ryuuji wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:30 pm What would that look like in practice?
I assume you mean all of this, correct?

That's basically the next few posts. I don't have a set plan yet, but I'll probably start with just showing the basics of various transitive sentences in the declarative mood. Maybe then move on to the hierarchy for direct/inverse, and then to situations that would involve different views of politeness, etc. I foresee a bunch more work on how the noun classes really work in the society, so I'd guess this will change. I don't mind saying I don't have all of it worked out yet. This IS a scratchpad, after all. ;)
Yes, but more specifically all the verby stuff. I would've liked to see lots of examples, but I suppose that's why this is a scratchpad.
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Re: Vardelm's Scratchpad (NP: Yokai Verb Concords)

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Rounin Ryuuji wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:42 pm Yes, but more specifically all the verby stuff. I would've liked to see lots of examples, but I suppose that's why this is a scratchpad.
Gocha. Yes, I plan on lots of examples, same as the rest of the thread. I just needed to get these 2 posts in to show the high level view. I think without that, examples for this lang wouldn't tell the whole story. There's too many interconnecting parts.
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Re: Vardelm's Scratchpad (NP: Yokai Verb Concords)

Post by Rounin Ryuuji »

Vardelm wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:09 pm
Rounin Ryuuji wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:42 pm Yes, but more specifically all the verby stuff. I would've liked to see lots of examples, but I suppose that's why this is a scratchpad.
Gocha. Yes, I plan on lots of examples, same as the rest of the thread. I just needed to get these 2 posts in to show the high level view. I think without that, examples for this lang wouldn't tell the whole story. There's too many interconnecting parts.
That's the idea I get. I'm having some trouble piecing it together mentally (though this is probably owing to gaps in my knowledge more than anything else).
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Re: Vardelm's Scratchpad (NP: Yokai Verb Concords)

Post by keenir »

Welcome back.


(always good to see new Yokai material - better to see new material with the return of a conlanger)
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Re: Vardelm's Scratchpad (NP: Yokai Verb Concords)

Post by Vardelm »

keenir wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:35 pm Welcome back.

(always good to see new Yokai material - better to see new material with the return of a conlanger)
Thanks! I've been on the board, reading almost daily, & posting a little, but it's good to finally get back to posting in this thread.
Vardelm's Scratchpad Table of Contents (Dwarven, Devani, Jin, & Yokai)
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Re: Vardelm's Scratchpad (NP: Yokai Verb Examples)

Post by Vardelm »

Yokai Verb Examples

This post will provide a bunch of examples to show the verb inflections mentioned in the posts above.


Intransitives

I figured it's worth showing some more intransitives as a recap, and because I have 1st & 2nd person endings now (not to mention pronouns).

These examples are all in the "casual" speech level since that is the least marked (in the declaritive).

akia jihang

akia
1PS
jiha-ng
ate-1P

I ate.

akisan jihang

akisan
1PP
jiha-ng
ate-1P

We ate.

kai leungdaming

kai
2PS
leungda-ming
fall.unconsicous-2P

You passed out.

kasong leungdaming

kasong
2PS.HON
leungda-ming
fall.unconsicous-2P

You passed out.

tsumakhomdai jeotade

tsuma-khom-dai
pine-pod-C10
jeota-de
fall-C10

The pinecones have fallen.

Notes:
  • 1st & 2nd agreement verb concords are found in the last post: Verb Concords
  • 3rd person subjects use verb concords based on their noun class, from this post: Concords
  • Verbs do not agree with subject/object pronouns for politeness. The speech levels (politeness, formality) are based on who you are speaking to, not whether an honorific pronoun is used for subject or object.
  • Verbs do not inflect for number.


Speech Levels

I won't go through details of every speech level. This will just show some of the verb forms used in the speech levels to provide an idea of how the affixes are used mechanically. These examples will still be in the declarative mood.

akanim chumsuedonyo

akanim
1PS.HON
chumsue-donyo
refuse-1P.DEC.FRM

I refused.

kasong goshengdan

kasong
2PS.HON
gosheng-dan
succeed-2P.DEC.FRM

You succeeded.

yoxanxio biadodexa

yoxan-xio
cloud-C08
biado-de-xa
arrive-FRM-C08

The clouds arrived.

Notes:
  • Each example is in the declarative mood & formal speech level.
  • Intransitive 1st & 2nd person endings have formality fused with their endings
  • 3rd person has the affix -de-, followed by the intransitive concord for noun class.


Moods
daijioni dzularune

daiji-oni
guard-C05
dzula-ru-ne
sleep-INF-C05

The guard slept (I assume).

Notes:
  • Moods are fused with formality/politeness, so they work identically. 1P & 2P have fused endings, while 3P has a separate affix.
  • I intend for the "inferential" to be a non-direct evidential like Turkish has. Beyond that, I'm not 100% sure how it will function, and I have even less ideas on the subjunctive & interrogative.


Voices

rosangsha lujimunxun paomagadeshon

rosang-sha
merchant-C04
lujimunxun
C06.PLR-bananas-C06
paoma-ga-de-shon
sell-DIR-FRM-TR.C04.C06

The merchant sold bananas.

rosangsha zhuduoni thiekogadeshen

rosang-sha
merchant-C04
zhuduo-ni
thief-C05
thieko-ga-de-shen
strike-DIR-FRM-TR.C04.C05

The merchant struck the thief.

rosangsha zhuduoni thiekandeshen

rosang-sha
merchant-C04
zhuduo-ni
thief-C05
thiek-an-de-shen
strike-INV-FRM-TR.C04.C05

The thief struck the merchant.
It was the merchant the thief struck.

jimunxun paomamnideni

jimunxun
C06.PLR-bananas-C06
paoma-mni-de-xun
sell-PAS-FRM-C06

The bananas were sold.

Notes:
  • All of the voice examples use the formal -de- marker, mostly to show where mood/polities affixes show up relative to voice affixes.
  • I don't have the animacy hierarchy worked out yet. It will take typical considerations like sentience & person, but will also add relative social status, noun class, & possibly taboos. The 3rd example shows the inverse marker -an-, although I don't know if a merchant or thief would be higher (probably the merchant). Word order will play some role as well in disambiguation as well as focus, so provided the translation "it was the merchant..." to show this a bit.
  • The passive is intransitive so it uses intransitive concords. I think an oblique argument for an agent will be rarely used since the inverse voice exists. If an oblique is used, it would probably indicate a lower level of agency/causation.


One thing I realized is I need to decide on what verb endings to use for 3rd person pronouns. I might just use the noun class the participant the pronoun would refer to, but not sure.

I think that's it for now.
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Re: Vardelm's Scratchpad (NP: Dwarven Verb Phrase Intro)

Post by Vardelm »

It's been a while, so time to revisit Dwarven a little bit!


Dwarven: Sandhi Sketch

The plan for Dwarven (or maybe its descendant languages) is to make frequent use of consonant mutations. This will primarily be at the start of words like the Celtic languages, but there will also be mutations at or towards the end of words, (probably) more in the style of the Uralic languages. I have a start on the sound changes for the Celtic-inspired mutations, but not the Uralic ones. As such, I'm posting just to force myself to write & think about it in a different manner than I have been. Chances are high that I'll be posting modified versions of this as my thoughts develop.

For now, this is more of a sandhi system than true consonant mutation. All of the sound changes are basically predictable based on phonological environment. Later, I may switch so that the environments were present in a previous language and removed. Or, I may just let the sandhi system stand in this language and develop it into various directions in the descendants. I actually kind of like that possibility.

Lenition
Lenition will be the main driver of consonant sandhi in Dwarven. It results purely from a preceding word in a phrase ending in a vowel. The resulting lenition is primarily adds voicing, but can also yield spirantization, debuccalization, or elision.

Normal Lenited
p b
b v
pj bj
bj vj
t d
d ð
tj dj
dj ðj
k g
g ch
kj kj
gj chj
q h
qj j
f v
v ∅ (elided)
fj vj
vj j
ð l
s h
ðj lj
sh h
ch r
chj j
h ∅ (elided)
m v
mj vj
n ð
nj ðj
ñ ch
ñj chj
l l (no change)
lj lj (no change)
j j (no change)
r r (no change)


Devoicing Assimilation
Where a preceding word ends in an unvoiced consonant with the same manner & placement, the initial consonant of the following word will also be devoiced.

Normal Devoiced
-p b- -p p-
-t d- -t t-
-k g- -k k-
-f v- -f f-


Future Devoicing Assimilation
At least one branch of Dwarven will go on to have even more devoicing. Essentially, a preceding word ending in any unvoiced consonant will devoice the initial consonant of the following.

Normal Devoiced
-p b- -p p-
-p d- -p t-
-p g- -p k-
-t b- -t p-
-t d- -t t-
etc etc


Future Devoicing & Hardening
With the devoicing in place, the same environment (preceding unvoiced consonant) will lead to hardening of fricatives, nasals, & continuants. The devoicing & hardening will form 1 set of mutations that are - vaguely - the "opposite" of lenition.

1 issue is with <s sh>. I'd like to have them harden to something, but not sure what. With that said, when I work out other sound changes happening to the descendant langs, there may or probably will be affricates <ts dz> by that point, so it could end up being a non-issue.

Normal Devoiced/
Hardened
p p (no change)
b p
pj pj (no change)
bj pj
t t (no change)
d t
tj tj (no change)
dj tj
k k (no change)
g k
kj kj (no change)
gj kj
q q (no change)
qj qj (no change)
f p
v f
fj pj
vj bj
ð t
s ???
ðj tj
sh ???
ch k
chj kj
h q
m bj
mj bj
n d
nj dj
ñ g
ñj gj
l ð
lj ðj
j ch
r h


Consonant Mutations / Grades
With both lenition and devoicing/hardening in place, that should create a situation where there are some bi-level mutations and some tri-level. The plan is - for at least one language - to remove as much of the other inflections and phonological environments such that the consonant mutations are the only thing that indicate the inflection in question. At this point, it's a consonant gradation system.

Normal Lenited Devoiced/
Hardened
p b p (no change)
b v p
pj bj pj (no change)
bj vj pj
t d t (no change)
d ð t
tj dj tj (no change)
dj ðj tj
k g k (no change)
g ch k
kj kj kj (no change)
gj chj kj
q h q (no change)
qj j qj (no change)
f v p
v ∅ (elided) f
fj vj pj
vj j bj
ð l t
s h ???
ðj lj tj
sh h ???
ch r k
chj j kj
h ∅ (elided) q
m v bj
mj vj bj
n ð d
nj ðj dj
ñ ch g
ñj chj gj
l l (no change) ð
lj lj (no change) ðj
j j (no change) ch
r r (no change) h

If you have been around the ZBB since the 2008-2010 timeframe, you may see where this is headed. Eventually, I want to have an improved and diachronically created version of my Tibetan Dwarvish nooblang, which was never finished.

I may create some example sentences, but probably not tonight.
Vardelm's Scratchpad Table of Contents (Dwarven, Devani, Jin, & Yokai)
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