Darren wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 4:42 am
I have heard it suggested that the Pirahã suddenly starting to use /tʙ̥/ around Everett was literally just a joke. Like they were bored and wanted to fuck with him so they started sticking raspberries in random words.
Isn’t it also seen in Wariʼ, at least?
Yeah. And Oro Win.
EDIT: looking it up, apparently it occurs allophonically in Ubykh, too. (Although Wikipedia gives no source, which makes it suspicious.)
Well, [tʷ ~ tp] is attested in NWCaucasian and it's a short step to /tʙ/.
Bilabially trilled coronal affricates (advibrates?) are found fairly frequently in Sino-Tibetan too; some language (can't remember which, Nort would know) has synchronic /ⁿdə/ → [ⁿdʙv̩]. Wikipedia says Namuyi has a full set of bilabially trilled affricates /pʙ bʙ tʙ dʙ/ but it's unsourced (well it's sourced, but this source literally just says "namuyi has forty consonants"), but there's undoubtedly some language in that area which it's phonemic in. It doesn't seem like /tʙ/ is particularly un-robust.
Darren wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 6:31 am
Bilabially trilled coronal affricates (advibrates?) are found fairly frequently in Sino-Tibetan too; some language (can't remember which, Nort would know) has synchronic /ⁿdə/ → [ⁿdʙv̩]. Wikipedia says Namuyi has a full set of bilabially trilled affricates /pʙ bʙ tʙ dʙ/ but it's unsourced (well it's sourced, but this source literally just says "namuyi has forty consonants"), but there's undoubtedly some language in that area which it's phonemic in. It doesn't seem like /tʙ/ is particularly un-robust.
Frequently relative to base rates, certainly. Sangtam has a set of labial-coronals /t͡ʙ̥ t͡ʙ̥ʰ n͡m/. There's a vowel traditionally transcribed <v̩> (sometimes <ꭒ> by analogy to <ɿ>) that can condition bilabial trilling after preceding coronals. (cf. NWC /tʷ kʷ/ [t͡p kʷ])
I'm not familiar with /ⁿdə/ → [ⁿdʙv̩], but it looks plausible. Somewhere in Angami-Ao maybe? Eatough's analysis of Liangshan Yi has /ⁿdu/ → [ⁿdʙv̩ʷ], but his /u/ is never realized as [u] - he claims Liangshan Yi doesn't have phonetic high vowels.
Darren wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 6:31 am
Bilabially trilled coronal affricates (advibrates?) are found fairly frequently in Sino-Tibetan too; some language (can't remember which, Nort would know) has synchronic /ⁿdə/ → [ⁿdʙv̩]. Wikipedia says Namuyi has a full set of bilabially trilled affricates /pʙ bʙ tʙ dʙ/ but it's unsourced (well it's sourced, but this source literally just says "namuyi has forty consonants"), but there's undoubtedly some language in that area which it's phonemic in. It doesn't seem like /tʙ/ is particularly un-robust.
Frequently relative to base rates, certainly. Sangtam has a set of labial-coronals /t͡ʙ̥ t͡ʙ̥ʰ n͡m/. There's a vowel traditionally transcribed <v̩> (sometimes <ꭒ> by analogy to <ɿ>) that can condition bilabial trilling after preceding coronals. (cf. NWC /tʷ kʷ/ [t͡p kʷ])
I'm not familiar with /ⁿdə/ → [ⁿdʙv̩], but it looks plausible. Somewhere in Angami-Ao maybe? Eatough's analysis of Liangshan Yi has /ⁿdu/ → [ⁿdʙv̩ʷ], but his /u/ is never realized as [u] - he claims Liangshan Yi doesn't have phonetic high vowels.
It must be Liangshan Yi I was thinking of, thanks. 'Tis the same language which produces /m̥m͡l˧sz˧/ and /ʃʲʒʲ/ and such.