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Lithuanian thread
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2026 1:02 pm
by rotting bones
Wikipedia on Lithuanian grammar:
Nouns and other parts of nominal morphology are declined in seven cases: nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, instrumental, locative (inessive), and vocative. In older Lithuanian texts, three additional varieties of the locative case are found: illative, adessive and allative. The most common are the illative, which is still used, mostly in spoken language, and the allative, which survives in the standard language in some idiomatic usages. The adessive is nearly extinct. These additional cases are probably due to the influence of Uralic languages, with which Baltic languages have had a longstanding contact. (Uralic languages possess a great variety of noun cases, a number of which are specialised locative cases.)
Is Lithuanian so conservative because it spent all these centuries developing additional cases from Uralic influence and then losing them again?
(Sorry, this is the level at which I understand IE linguistics.)
Re: Lithuanian thread
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2026 5:27 am
by hwhatting
It's in an area where case inflection is usual; Russian has 6*) (true AFAIK also for Belarussian and Ukrainian), Polish has 7. Being in contact with Uralic languages with a rich agglutinative case system probably has played a role.
*) Not counting 2-3 more marginal cases.
Re: Lithuanian thread
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2026 7:45 am
by rotting bones
hwhatting wrote: ↑Fri Jan 09, 2026 5:27 am
It's in an area where case inflection is usual; Russian has 6*) (true AFAIK also for Belarussian and Ukrainian), Polish has 7. Being in contact with Uralic languages with a rich agglutinative case system probably has played a role.
*) Not counting 2-3 more marginal cases.
Thanks. I associate a language having the "illative, adessive and allative" cases with Uralic.
Re: Lithuanian thread
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2026 7:50 am
by rotting bones
All the linguistic histories of Lithuanian are behind a paywall, so here are a few sentences of BALTA DROBULĖ, a Lithuanian novel set in New York City:
https://www.xn--altiniai-4wb.info/files ... LHP200.pdf Warning: I don't speak Lithuanian. Nor have I studied it in much detail.
BALTA DROBULĖ
White Shroud
B. M. T. Broadway line.
- Ekspresas
- express
- sustoja.
- stop.3s
The Express stops.
- Antanas
- Anthony
- Garšva
- Garšva
- išeina
- exit.3
- į
- towards
- peroną.
- platform
Antanas Garšva enters the station.
- Šešios
- six
- iki
- until
- keturių
- four.gen
- popiet.
- afternoon
It's six to four in the afternoon.
(Really?)
- Jis
- 3s.m
- žingsniuoja
- walk.3s
- apytuščiu
- half.empty
- peronu.
- platform
He walks across the half-empty platform.
- Dvi
- two
- negrės
- black.woman.pl
- žaliom
- green.inst
- sukniom
- dress.inst
- stebi
- watch.3p
- išeinančius.
- departee.pl.acc
Two black women in green dresses watch the leaving passengers.
- Garšva
- Garšva
- užtraukia
- pull.3s
- škotiškų
- Scottish.pl
- marškinių
- shirt.pl.gen
- ziperį.
- zipper.acc
Garšva pulls up the zipper of his Scottish shirt.
- Šąla
- freezing
- rankų
- hand.gen
- ir
- also
- kojų
- leg.pl.gen
- pirštai,
- finger.pl
His hands and toes are freezing
- nors
- although
- rugpjūčio
- August.gen
- mėnuo
- moon
- New
- New
- Yorke.
- York.loc
even though it's only the month of August in New York.
Re: Lithuanian thread
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2026 5:00 am
by hwhatting
rotting bones wrote: ↑Sun Jan 11, 2026 7:45 am
Thanks. I associate a language having the "illative, adessive and allative" cases with Uralic.
To be clear, these three are indeed usually explained as due to the influence of Fennic lanugages. But the retention of more of the PIE case system is a feature of neigboring Slavic languages as well.
And as your textbook says, the three extra cases are on the way out; none of them shows up in the excerpt you quote (not that a short excerpt like this can be really representative).
rotting bones wrote: ↑Sun Jan 11, 2026 7:50 am
- Šešios
- six
- iki
- until
- keturių
- four.gen
- popiet.
- afternoon
It's six to four in the afternoon.
(Really?)
Why the "really"?
Re: Lithuanian thread
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2026 5:36 am
by rotting bones
hwhatting wrote: ↑Mon Jan 12, 2026 5:00 am
To be clear, these three are indeed usually explained as due to the influence of Fennic lanugages. But the retention of more of the PIE case system is a feature of neigboring Slavic languages as well.
Thanks. I'm fluent in Russian (or at least I was a few years ago). I'm on the lookout for the cases I'm familiar with being used differently.
hwhatting wrote: ↑Mon Jan 12, 2026 5:00 am
And as your textbook says, the three extra cases are on the way out; none of them shows up in the excerpt you quote (not that a short excerpt like this can be really representative).
I was saying that maybe Lithuanian wasn't exactly standing still. It innovated new cases. That was the thrust of its innovation. Then it got rid of the novel cases it had created.
hwhatting wrote: ↑Mon Jan 12, 2026 5:00 am
rotting bones wrote: ↑Sun Jan 11, 2026 7:50 am
- Šešios
- six
- iki
- until
- keturių
- four.gen
- popiet.
- afternoon
It's six to four in the afternoon.
(Really?)
Why the "really"?
The minutes weren't a multiple of five, so I wondered if I was misreading something.