Tinasan, Ineshîmé, and other fantasy-Japonic curiosities

[Qwynegold]

I could design new characters by hand, but making them digitally...

Oh, I see. Well, that's no biggie. You could draw all the characters by hand and then scan them. Vectorizing hand drawn characters might or might not be successful, but if that doesn't work, then you could use the drawings as templates and draw vector graphics on top of them.

But yeah, as Vardelm says, just start with pen and paper.

[Rounin Ryuuji]

My big verbal morphology document not being ready yet, here is a piece of poetry both vaguely mythological, and vaguely vague in its meaning (taken from some fiction in the setting please pretend it was not originally composed in English then translated):

貎狛えずか？「ありしやんえずか？」
Arishen, ezu ka?
[ɐ̞.ɾ̪ʲi.ʃe̞ɴ é̞.z̪ʉ̀ᵝ kɐ̞́]
lion.beast what QUESTION
"What are you, Arishen?"

虎狛縞えか？「とらしやんふわえか？」
Torashen, ha eka?
[t̪o̞ᵝ.ɾ̪ɐ̞.ʃè̞ɴ hɐ̞́ è̞.kɐ̞́]
tiger.beast stripe HOW/WHY
"How are you striped, Torashen?/Why are you striped, Torashen?"

獅二先「ありせら゙ん、ふたさい」
Arislan, futa sai,
[ɐ̞.ɾ̪ʲis̪.l̪ɐ̞̀ɴ ɸʉᵝ.t̪ɐ̞̀ s̪ɛi]
liger two one
"Arislan two as one,"

馬狛、友り「むましやん、ともり。」
Mumashen, tomori
[mʉᵝ.mɐ̞.ʃè̞ɴ t̪ó̞ᵝ.mo̞ᵝ.ɾ̪ʲì]
horse.beast friend.COPULA_FORMANT
"Mumashen befriends,"

犬狛、玉達「いる゙しやん、だまだし、」
Ilushen damadâsche,
[i.l̪yᵝ.ʃè̞ɴ d̪ɐ̞́.mè̞.dɐ̞́͜ɐ̞ʃ]
dog.beast ball.player
"Ilushen, a ball-player,"

龍、全王、「いずれ、すめらし。」
Izúre, sumerâsche...
[i.z̪ʉᵝ.ɾ̪è̞ s̪ʉᵝ.me͉.ɾ̪ɐ̞́͜ɐ̞ʃ]

The poem appearing in the actual fiction is

Arishen, what art thou?
Torashen, striped how?
Arislan, mix the two,
Mumashen, friend so true,
Ilushen, with a ball,
Izuré, lord of all...

Edit: Somehow accidentally quoted myself rather than editing in that it has a melody it actually follows since I tend to listen to music and write at the same time.

[Qwynegold]

Now I'm curious to know what all these beasts are.

[Rounin Ryuuji]

Now I'm curious to know what all these beasts are.

There are hints in the Kanji spellings and glosses.

[Rounin Ryuuji]

So I've finished my first draught of my Rather Copious Verb Document which details how verb forms are used, and provides some rather absurd example sentences using the limited vocabulary I presently have. If it looks a little inconsistent, the syntax itself is still very much a work in progress (I think I need to rework the nouns, and do more with adjectives, before I really tackle that part; adjectives are verb-like as in Japanese, but they have different conjugations based on the type of adjective, and my ideas on this point are still very messy and not much written down). As somebody or other once said, Ars longa, vita brevis.

[Rounin Ryuuji]

And now, something on the indefinite and definite forms of nominals. I'm also considering doing a post on some of the worldbuilding, but it's in a very unfinished state, and given to changing rather quickly as I write more fiction. It's a rather strange world, too, all considered, so I'm a little doubtful anybody but myself will much like it.

[Qwynegold]

Try giving an overview of it and see what people say.

[Rounin Ryuuji]

I did a translation of "Lavender Blue" into the language, in which it is fairly easy to rhyme:

群花空色しい、蕕蒼しい、
「むらさけそしけ、をとりさをしい、」
Murasaki soschikeschi, wotori sôschi,
lavender sky.colour.ATT-ADJ, rosemary bright-green.ATT-ADJ
"Lavender's blue as the (wide) sky [literally: sky-coloured], rosemary's green"

来う日朕皇有り、汝を愛り。
「けうびいんめすめらきあり、なんめをいとり。」
Kyōbu ime sumerâsche ari, namyô itori.
come-PRED.day 1sg.BOUND ruler cop.INF, 2sg.BOUND.ACC marry.COP-INF
"And I shall marry you shortly, when I am king."

誰れ語せうか、誰れ？誰れ、誰れ？
「たれいふせうか、たれ？たれ、たれ？」
Tare iyusu ka? Tare? Tare, tare?
person-interrogative language.do.PRED INT person-interrogative person-interrogative person-interrogative
"Who said it's so? Just who was it? Who was it? Who?"

朕有り、朕、朕！有り俺れ！
「いんめあり、いんめ、いんめ！ありいんみよれ！」
Ime ari, ime, ime, ari imyore!
1sg.BOUND cop.INF 1sg.BOUND 1sg.BOUND, cop.INF 1sg(variant).NOM
"It was myself, myself, myself! it was me who!"

I did try to make the back-translation fit, but it doesn't sound as good as the original, I admit. Oh, that rhymes, doesn't it?

Try giving an overview of it and see what people say.

I'm beginning one, but it's... already long.

[Rounin Ryuuji]

To put the language in context, I have prepared this, about which I suddenly feel very self-conscious.

[Rounin Ryuuji]

To follow on the overview document, I have produced an extremely ugly map. Dropbox insists you click the link to view it rather than letting me use an image tag. I suppose that isn't what Dropbox is for.

Thank you for clicking. Isn't it hideous? Yes, I did make it in Paint, and yes, it did take me a great deal longer than I want to admit. Please be nice to it.

Now you know, if you read the document in the earlier post, where all this language development is happening. The green is land that is normally green, the pale blue is ice, medium blue is water, and the pointy marks are meant to be mountains. See what I meant about the landmasses resembling big deformed flowers? Yes, I do have a bit of a preoccupation with those, and everywhere does seem to be named after them. The dotted lines are for political divisions, of course (there is no rhyme or reason to which colour beyond what would show up on what). I do have ideas as to what all the special districts and such are for, with most being older, traditional divisions (the Ineshîmé Kingdom emerged from a pre-unification Germany-esque mess when the Margrave of Sozeau, the Archduke of the Great Island, and the Duke of Elêge, all ended up the same individual; Seydori, Tornesol, Inori, Sozeau, and Elêge would all hypothetically have their own unique languages, but all are also in decline now).

This also clearly isn't Earth. I've been trying to give it a name, but all of them I've come up with sound either too close to things that have actually provided inspiration for the world, or... not quite right in some other way. Either way, thank you for viewing.

[Raphael]

It looks like something out of an early 1990s video game... ...and it's still a lot better than anything I could have done. But why isn't it on Earth? I had the impression that linguistically speaking, you were doing an a posteriori project.

[Rounin Ryuuji]

It looks like something out of an early 1990s video game... ...and it's still a lot better than anything I could have done.

Thank you.

But why isn't it on Earth?

My imagination simply doesn't run in the direction of fiction set in anything like our world. The connection to Earth is quite ambiguous, but this could be a distant post-apocalyptic future, with the Totori the descendants of some form of descendants of humans or a similar species from a divergent timeline (or of something bioengineered by them, more than likely). It could also hypothetically be from some sort of mythological system of an alternate Earth culture that's never actually mentioned. The connection is deliberately open to interpretation. The present planet is clearly magically terraformed,and more than likely not where the life forms living on it.

I had the impression that linguistically speaking, you were doing an a posteriori project.

The thing about the language is it could plausibly have existed on Earth, and it's constructed as if it were so for all intents and purposes. I'm not good at inventing language from a vacuum. I simply start with two things derived from Earth languages, plop them in when wanted, and let them go from there. From the linguistic phases of Ancient Ifsumé to Old Ineshîmé, you see no external borrowing except for from related languages. A part of the language is that it was created to result in a certain aesthetic, one that would evoke some of the Earth cultures that inspired it, and sound pleasant (to me at least) and admit to being bad at making up roots and grammar from nothing.

If you have any more specific questions about anything, hit me with your best shot, fire away!

[Vardelm]

To follow on the overview document, I have produced an extremely ugly map.

Thank you for clicking. Isn't it hideous? Yes, I did make it in Paint, and yes, it did take me a great deal longer than I want to admit. Please be nice to it.

Hideous? Maybe, but here's the thing: you did it. You have at least something roughed out. A first draft is often the hardest part! Part of what took you a while is that you did it in Paint, which actually makes it a bit more impressive than you might think. If you eventually redo the map, you can use tools like Inkarnate or Wonderdraft which will be much easier to create something that is visually appealing, and much quicker.

Overall, I think the shapes are fine, and I don't pick up the "deformed flowers" vibe myself, although I guess I can see why you'd say that. You're assuming your readers/viewers will see the same things you will, but they won't.

I do have one bit of criticism/advice, although I realize this isn't intended to be a super realistic/naturalistic setting, so disregard as needed. I would suggest that eventually the mountains be organized a bit more into ranges: basically lines/curves of mountains. There's a few places that look like they are, but especially in the middle of the northern continent there is just a blob of mountains. You can still keep it quite mountainous, but if you tweak it just a bit to get the ranges, I think you'd have just enough naturalism that no one would look at it and think it's just not plausible.

Here's what I mean, with lines showing the rough lines of mountains that I can sort of pick out from your map. Yes, this was also done in Paint.

[Rounin Ryuuji]

To follow on the overview document, I have produced an extremely ugly map.

Thank you for clicking. Isn't it hideous? Yes, I did make it in Paint, and yes, it did take me a great deal longer than I want to admit. Please be nice to it.

Hideous? Maybe, but here's the thing: you did it. You have at least something roughed out. A first draft is often the hardest part! Part of what took 1you a while is that you did it in Paint, which actually makes it a bit more impressive than you might think.

I was at least partly being facetious, but thanks.

Overall, I think the shapes are fine, and I don't pick up the "deformed flowers" vibe myself, although I guess I can see why you'd say that. You're assuming your readers/viewers will see the same things you will, but they won't.

Interesting note.

I do have one bit of criticism/advice, although I realize this isn't intended to be a super realistic/naturalistic setting, so disregard as needed. I would suggest that eventually the mountains be organized a bit more into ranges: basically lines/curves of mountains. There's a few places that look like they are, but especially in the middle of the northern continent there is just a blob of mountains.

The planet doesn't have natural geological activity. The mountainblob was a deliberate choice. It isn't depicted very well, but at the centre of each mountainblob, the mountains are higher.

Here's what I mean, with lines showing the rough lines of mountains that I can sort of pick out from your map. Yes, this was also done in Paint.

[Note: Map cut for space.]

I do appreciate the feedback! And I might actually consider some ranging, now that you point it out, but I do like the mountains blobby, too.

[Vardelm]

The planet doesn't have natural geological activity. The mountainblob was a deliberate choice. It isn't depicted very well, but at the centre of each mountainblob, the mountains are higher.

I do appreciate the feedback! And I might actually consider some ranging, now that you point it out, but I do like the mountains blobby, too.

If you are doing blobby on purpose, then go for it! Many people's first conlang is an English cipher and/or completely non-naturalistic, simply because they don't know better. The same applies to world maps in terms of naturalism. In both cases, if you are consciously going for something specific, then cool: keep at it! There's probably less feedback people can give if something isn't "natural", but that doesn't make it wrong. I will say that - in terms of ranges - I'm not suggesting that each range is only "1 mountain wide" or that you can't have a ton in that blobby area. Just look at the eastern and western ends of the Himalayas!

Overall, I think it's great you're at this stage & still going. For my world, I know that I want 4 major continents, the rough placement of them, and that I'll be going for naturalism. But aside from that, I'm nowhere near as far along as what you have here, so kudos.

[Rounin Ryuuji]

Overall, I think it's great you're at this stage & still going. For my world, I know that I want 4 major continents, the rough placement of them, and that I'll be going for naturalism. But aside from that, I'm nowhere near as far along as what you have here, so kudos.

Thanks; I've been at this off and on for years, but I've just recently rediscovered it.

[Ares Land]

To follow on the overview document, I have produced an extremely ugly map. Dropbox insists you click the link to view it rather than letting me use an image tag. I suppose that isn't what Dropbox is for.

Thank you for clicking. Isn't it hideous? Yes, I did make it in Paint, and yes, it did take me a great deal longer than I want to admit. Please be nice to it.

Don't be too self-conscious about maps. One mistake I made is putting off drawing maps, because I didn't have the drawing skills yet to make something really pretty... But the point of a map is to get geographical information across which yours does very well.

I don't think it's ugly at all, BTW -- and it's all the more impressive that you did it in Paint. (I agree with Vardeim that Paint probably makes the job harder.)

I don't see the big flowers at all. if anything, it reminds me of Helliconia.

[Rounin Ryuuji]

Don't be too self-conscious about maps. One mistake I made is putting off drawing maps, because I didn't have the drawing skills yet to make something really pretty... But the point of a map is to get geographical information across which yours does very well.

I don't think it's ugly at all, BTW -- and it's all the more impressive that you did it in Paint. (I agree with Vardeim that Paint probably makes the job harder.)[/quote]
I'm getting a very nice response to it, it seems, and my own map is now growing on me a bit. If (presumably when), I decide to redo it, it will likely be in some other program. I simply went with the one I knew.

I don't see the big flowers at all. if anything, it reminds me of Helliconia.

I feel like I ought to outline the intended flower-shapes now, but either way, I'd never heard of Helliconia. Looking up the map, though, I do see the resemblance, and reading a bit more about the books, I do also like the sound of the premise. It sounds like it will be an interesting read. It is now added to my massive backlog. A part of me wishes I already knew it. It might be interesting to explore Totori anthropology (Totoriology? If they had a word for it, it would presumably be 人者入学 Totori Iryôki; the native suffix for the name of a science literally means "entering into the learning of"), though religion seems to have died out entirely among them, so that particular section wouldn't be particularly interesting.

[Qwynegold]

Ooh, a map! I have to take a better look at it when I'm on my computer, because I can't seem to zoom in properly on my phone.

One thing you need to explain though: there's no natural geological activity?! Wouldn't that like, have huge consequences for the planet? How does this work?

[Rounin Ryuuji]

Ooh, a map! I have to take a better look at it when I'm on my computer, because I can't seem to zoom in properly on my phone.

It is, indeed, a map.

One thing you need to explain though: there's no natural geological activity?! Wouldn't that like, have huge consequences for the planet? How does this work?

It's currently simply described as a "magical" process of replenishment from below (hence mountains tend to cluster); there's more detail, but that "more detail" is actually a major plot point in a story I have planned...