Zompist Bboard Again

ophois wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 6:49 pm I noticed a sound change in the Kartvelian section of the ID. Proto-Kartvelian is presumed to have had three sibilant series (I'll use the voiceless fricative as representative of each one): *s s₁ š (apparently phonetically /s ʂ ʃ/). Georgian merged the retroflex series with the alveolar one and left the post-alveolars alone. But both Svan and Zan (Mingrelian + Laz) instead underwent the shift *s₁ š > ʃ ʃk/ʃg (!). Not did they randomly epenthesise a velar out of nowhere, it happened independently in both, since Zan is more closely related to Georgian while Svan is the outlier. From an amateur perspective, the sound change seems more likely to have been *ʃ ʃk > s ʃ in Georgian and retention in the others. I'm not a linguist, so they probably have good reasons, but maybe Kartvelianists are following Georgian too closely?

Qwynegold wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2026 8:15 am I watched a history TV-show, where they had an interesting linguistic claim that I have not heard before. They said that bilabials are much more than labiodentals in hunter-gatherer societies than in agricultural societies.

They said that people are usually born with a slight overbite, but if you eat hard and chewy food throughout your childhood, the lower jaw developes in such a way that the front teeth end up meeting edge to edge. This helps with biting of tough pieces of food. They also said that with that kind of jaw, producing labiodentals requires a little bit more effort, which is why the language would favor bilabials.

If someone wants the source I could look for the episode and post a link. It's in Swedish, though I think that part might have had English audio. But it's probably not viewable outside Sweden.

Qwynegold wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2026 8:03 am Oh, I forgot to reply to bradrn and zompist about the part of speech of the word but. Thanks for the input! I'm thinking that maybe I can get away with labeling it as a subjunctive in my conlang dictionary.

bradrn wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2026 8:57 am

Qwynegold wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2026 8:03 am Oh, I forgot to reply to bradrn and zompist about the part of speech of the word but. Thanks for the input! I'm thinking that maybe I can get away with labeling it as a subjunctive in my conlang dictionary.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen ‘subjunctive’ used as a name for a part of speech. I’ve always seen it used to refer to a kind of verbal inflection found primarily in subordinate clauses.

Qwynegold wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2026 8:03 am Oh, I forgot to reply to bradrn and zompist about the part of speech of the word but. Thanks for the input! I'm thinking that maybe I can get away with labeling it as a subjunctive in my conlang dictionary.

Lērisama wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2026 11:42 am ¹ Although I don't know about Swedish².
² I think, sorry if not Qwynegold

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2026 9:54 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2026 8:57 am

Qwynegold wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2026 8:03 am Oh, I forgot to reply to bradrn and zompist about the part of speech of the word but. Thanks for the input! I'm thinking that maybe I can get away with labeling it as a subjunctive in my conlang dictionary.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen ‘subjunctive’ used as a name for a part of speech. I’ve always seen it used to refer to a kind of verbal inflection found primarily in subordinate clauses.

Nor do I. 'Subjunctive' is a mood, not a part of speech. I'd say that but is a conjunction.

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2026 8:36 am

Qwynegold wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2026 8:15 am I watched a history TV-show, where they had an interesting linguistic claim that I have not heard before. They said that bilabials are much more than labiodentals in hunter-gatherer societies than in agricultural societies.

They said that people are usually born with a slight overbite, but if you eat hard and chewy food throughout your childhood, the lower jaw developes in such a way that the front teeth end up meeting edge to edge. This helps with biting of tough pieces of food. They also said that with that kind of jaw, producing labiodentals requires a little bit more effort, which is why the language would favor bilabials.

If someone wants the source I could look for the episode and post a link. It's in Swedish, though I think that part might have had English audio. But it's probably not viewable outside Sweden.

I have heard of that idea, though I don't remember where, and I don't know what to think of it. Most such claims of correlations between phoneme inventory features and geographical or cultural environments are doubtful, if not entirely spurious.

Lērisama wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2026 11:42 am Quite possibly it was just a mistake for conjunction, given (various cognates of) ‘conjunctive’ are often used for the various moods of European languages usually called subjunctive in English¹.

¹ Although I don't know about Swedish².
² I think, sorry if not Qwynegold

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2026 9:54 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2026 8:57 am

Qwynegold wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2026 8:03 am Oh, I forgot to reply to bradrn and zompist about the part of speech of the word but. Thanks for the input! I'm thinking that maybe I can get away with labeling it as a subjunctive in my conlang dictionary.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen ‘subjunctive’ used as a name for a part of speech. I’ve always seen it used to refer to a kind of verbal inflection found primarily in subordinate clauses.

Nor do I. 'Subjunctive' is a mood, not a part of speech. I'd say that but is a conjunction.

Ephraim wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2026 4:20 pm In Swedish, it is fairly common to refer to subordinating conjuctions as subjunktioner, i.e. subjunctions. Is that not a thing in English?

Man in Space wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2026 8:56 pm How does Zipf’s law hold up with polysynthetic languages?

Travis B. wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2026 9:11 pm

Man in Space wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2026 8:56 pmHow does Zipf’s law hold up with polysynthetic languages?

Good question. Normally with such languages I'd presume one'd apply it to morphemes rather than words per se.