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Re: Brassica SCA [v1.0.0]
Posted: Tue May 05, 2026 7:27 am
by þeprussianfrog
Yay it's working again! Thanks!
Re: Brassica SCA [v1.0.0]
Posted: Thu May 07, 2026 5:00 pm
by Man in Space
I am having two issues: the wildcard
^ doesn’t seem to want to work and some categories aren’t being properly read. The affected rules are pitch accent and stop assimilation, respectively.
For the pitch accent rule, using
^Vacc _ and
_ ^Vacc doesn’t cause subsequent accents to disappear; using the specific environments
Vacc (C) (C) (V) (C) (C) (V) (C) (C) (V) (C) (C) (V) (C) (C) _ and
_ (C) (C) (V) (C) (C) (V) (C) (C) (V) (C) (C) Vacc does work—
e.g.,
ɢjabrə as the input comes out
ɢjábrə́ if I use
^Vacc.
For stop assimilation,
pʰəɢəwa first changes to
pʰɢəwa as expected, but the stop assimilation rule doesn't turn
pʰ to
b, rather it gives me
�.
Code: Select all
new categories
Nas = m n ɲ ŋ ɴ
Svcl = p t tʲ k q
Svcd = b d dʲ g ɢ
Svla = pʰ tʰ tʲʰ kʰ qʰ
Svca = bʰ dʰ dʲʰ gʰ ɢʰ
Fvcl = f s ʃ x χ h
Fvcd = v z ʒ ɣ ʁ
Apx = w r j 1 2
Vnac = a ə e i o u
Vacc = á ə́ é í ó ú
Fvcl = f s ʃ x χ h
Fvcd = v z ʒ ɣ ʁ
C = Nas Svcl Svcd Svla Svca Fvcl Fvcd Apx
S = Svcl Svcd Svla Svca
F = Fvcl Fvcd
R = Nas Apx
V = Vnac Vacc
X = Ø
end
;pitch accent
Vnac / Vacc / _ V
Vnac / Vacc / C C _ // Vacc (C) (C) (V) (C) (C) (V) (C) (C) (V) (C) (C) (V) (C) (C)_
Vnac / Vacc / # (C) (C) _ // _ (C) (C) (V) (C) (C) (V) (C) (C) (V) (C) (C) Vacc
;vowel deletions
[u ú i í] / / _ (C) (C) [w u ú j i í]
;initial-foot redundancy
[a á] / / # (C) (C) _ (C) (C) [a á]
[ə ə́] / / # (C) (C) _ (C) (C) [ə ə́]
[i í] / / # (C) (C) _ (C) (C) [i í]
[u ú] / / # (C) (C) _ (C) (C) [u ú]
[u ú i í] / / _ (C) (C) [w u ú j i í]
;final-foot redundancy
[a á] / / (C) (C) _ (C) (C) [a á] #
[ə ə́] / / (C) (C) _ (C) (C) [ə ə́] #
[i í] / / (C) (C) _ (C) (C) [i í] #
[u ú] / / (C) (C) _ (C) (C) [u ú] #
;final high vowel deletion
[i í u ú] / / [a á ə ə́] (C) (C) (V) (C) (C) (V) (C) (C) (V) (C) (C) (V) _ #
;final glide fortition?
[w j] / [v s] / V _ #
[w j] / [u i] / C _ #
;stop assimilation
[Svcd Svla Svca] / Svcl / _ Svcl
[Svcl Svla Svca] / Svcd / _ Svcd
[Svcl Svcd Svca] / Svla / _ Svla
[Svcl Svcd Svca] / Svca / _ Svca
The dummy word
pibi shows up as
bbi as is proper.
Re: Brassica SCA [v1.0.0]
Posted: Thu May 07, 2026 5:41 pm
by bradrn
Aaargh, not another wildcard problem… that syntax is almost more trouble than it’s worth, and the semantics confuses even me sometimes. Remind me to look into it tomorrow when I have time.
Re: Brassica SCA [v1.0.0]
Posted: Fri May 08, 2026 2:10 am
by Lērisama
Man in Space wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2026 5:00 pm
For stop assimilation,
pʰəɢəwa first changes to
pʰɢəwa as expected, but the stop assimilation rule doesn't turn
pʰ to
b, rather it gives me
�.
To solve this problem, you need to change the stop assimilation rules to the following:
Code: Select all
;stop assimilation
[Svcd Svla Svca] / [Svcl Svcl Svcl] / _ Svcl
[Svcl Svla Svca] / [Svcd Svcd Svcd] / _ Svcd
[Svcl Svcd Svca] / [Svla Svla Svla] / _ Svla
[Svcl Svcd Svca] / [Svca Svca Svca] / _ Svca
This is because Brassica expands your original set of rules to
[b… pʰ… bʰ…] / [p…] / _ Svcl etc. and then replaces the categories one by one, and can't find anything to replace all but the first category on the left with, because the lengths are mismatched. There is a way to simplify this by using features to not have to reduntantly write everything out, but I'd need to take some to refamiliarise myself with them to work out exactly how.
Re: Brassica SCA [v1.0.0]
Posted: Fri May 08, 2026 5:31 am
by bradrn
Thank you Lērisama!
Lērisama wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2026 2:10 am
This is because Brassica expands your original set of rules to
[b… pʰ… bʰ…] / [p…] / _ Svcl etc. and then replaces the categories one by one, and can't find anything to replace all but the first category on the left with, because the lengths are mismatched. There is a way to simplify this by using features to not have to reduntantly write everything out, but I'd need to take some to refamiliarise myself with them to work out exactly how.
I think something like
Stop / Stop$Phonation#assim / _ Stop$Phonation#assim. Though I haven’t tested it… honestly I need to refamiliarise myself with the syntax too.
Re: Brassica SCA [v1.0.0]
Posted: Fri May 08, 2026 6:13 am
by bradrn
Man in Space wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2026 5:00 pm
For the pitch accent rule, using
^Vacc _ and
_ ^Vacc doesn’t cause subsequent accents to disappear
Could you give me the whole rule you tried which didn’t work?
Re: Brassica SCA [v1.0.0]
Posted: Sun May 10, 2026 9:46 am
by Man in Space
bradrn wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2026 6:13 am
Man in Space wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2026 5:00 pm
For the pitch accent rule, using
^Vacc _ and
_ ^Vacc doesn’t cause subsequent accents to disappear
Could you give me the whole rule you tried which didn’t work?
Code: Select all
Vnac / Vacc / _ V
Vnac / Vacc / C C _ // ^Vacc _
Vnac / Vacc / # (C) (C) _ // _ ^Vacc
Re: Brassica SCA [v1.0.0]
Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2026 10:27 am
by bradrn
I’ve finally gotten a bit of time to look at Brassica again, and reading this thread I noticed I never actually answered Man in Space’s last question. So:
Man in Space wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2026 9:46 am
Vnac / Vacc / C C _ // ^Vacc _
Here, the exception reads, ‘match any number of graphemes, then an accented vowel, then the target immediately following’. That is, it’s effectively the same as writing
Vacc _, which is obviously wrong. What you wanted was
Vacc [C V]* _, which matches arbitrary characters
between the two.
(There is the slight caveat that
[C V]* doesn’t actually work on the currently-released version. However, it
does work on my unreleased development version, since I relaxed the behaviour of the Kleene star a bit. Hopefully I’ll be able to make another release soon.)
Of course, after five months I’m sure this reply is totally useless. But at least it gives me some confidence that there’s no actual bug here.
Re: Brassica SCA [v1.0.0]
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2026 7:44 am
by Ares Land
You might be aware of it already, but it looks like bradrn.com is down.
(Other than that, some appreciation. I've been using brassica for some time now and it works very well!)
Re: Brassica SCA [v1.0.0]
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2026 9:41 am
by bradrn
Ares Land wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2026 7:44 am
You might be aware of it already, but it looks like the bradrn.com is down.
Oh dear. The server is back home in Australia, so I’ll have to ask my parents to fix it.
(Other than that, some appreciation. I've been using brassica for some time now and it works very well!)
Thank you!
Re: Brassica SCA [v1.0.0]
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2026 9:32 am
by bradrn
bradrn wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2026 9:41 am
Ares Land wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2026 7:44 am
You might be aware of it already, but it looks like the bradrn.com is down.
Oh dear. The server is back home in Australia, so I’ll have to ask my parents to fix it.
Should be back up again.
Re: Brassica SCA [v1.0.0]
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2026 9:39 am
by Ares Land
bradrn wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2026 9:32 am
bradrn wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2026 9:41 am
Ares Land wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2026 7:44 am
You might be aware of it already, but it looks like the bradrn.com is down.
Oh dear. The server is back home in Australia, so I’ll have to ask my parents to fix it.
Should be back up again.
And indeed it is. Thank you!
Re: Brassica SCA [v1.0.0]
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2026 9:39 am
by bradrn
Ares Land wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2026 9:39 am
bradrn wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2026 9:32 am
bradrn wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2026 9:41 am
Oh dear. The server is back home in Australia, so I’ll have to ask my parents to fix it.
Should be back up again.
And indeed it is. Thank you!
No worries!