Zompist Bboard Again

Posted: **Tue Mar 25, 2025 3:27 am**

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 9:27 am One thing I noticed from listening to the song Nebel by Rammstein is that Till Lindemann pronounces the word geküsst as what sounds like gek[ø]sst to my ears. Note that while Till Lindemann sings in StG, I have heard things from Germans saying he pronounces it with a noticeable accent beyond mere aspects of "stage German". Any thoughts on this?

Yes, it is close to Stage German (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BChnendeutsch). Which was a defined standard that radio and tv announcers were trained in. t makes sense that they would keep the vowels as distinct as possible. It was used before and during second world war and, in Western Germany, it was also used to some extent in the time after the war. Hitler's speeches are influenced by this but so is the radio live report on Das Wunder von Bern. To me, that makes Rammstein sound old-timey and like they want to go to war (my subjective opinion). One of the reasons why I never liked the music.

Posted: **Tue Mar 25, 2025 9:24 am**

Creyeditor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 25, 2025 3:27 am
Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 9:27 am One thing I noticed from listening to the song Nebel by Rammstein is that Till Lindemann pronounces the word geküsst as what sounds like gek[ø]sst to my ears. Note that while Till Lindemann sings in StG, I have heard things from Germans saying he pronounces it with a noticeable accent beyond mere aspects of "stage German". Any thoughts on this?
Yes, it is close to Stage German (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BChnendeutsch). Which was a defined standard that radio and tv announcers were trained in. t makes sense that they would keep the vowels as distinct as possible. It was used before and during second world war and, in Western Germany, it was also used to some extent in the time after the war. Hitler's speeches are influenced by this but so is the radio live report on Das Wunder von Bern. To me, that makes Rammstein sound old-timey and like they want to go to war (my subjective opinion). One of the reasons why I never liked the music.

So to you Stage German is militaristic in and of itself, even when there is no other association with National Socialism?

Posted: **Tue Mar 25, 2025 10:52 am**

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Mar 25, 2025 9:24 am So to you Stage German is militaristic in and of itself, even when there is no other association with National Socialism?

I don't see/hear the connection between Bühnenaussprache and Hitler spoofs; they are two completely different things. And actually, I like the music of Rammstein to some degree, especially Flake's keyboard sounds; but the stage antics, Lindemann's fake-Nazi singing and the way they write songs about controversial subjects such as child abuse, cannibalism or US imperialism not in order to criticize them but solely for the sake of public arousal and record sales, put me off.

Posted: **Wed Mar 26, 2025 9:14 am**

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 7:39 pmthe typical German almost-/iː/

I'm not sure that's really typical. I've heard a lot of German speakers that have /ɛː/, not even /eː/. See e.g. this clip (YouTube).

JAL

Posted: **Wed Mar 26, 2025 9:31 am**

jal wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 9:14 am
Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 7:39 pmthe typical German almost-/iː/
I'm not sure that's really typical. I've heard a lot of German speakers that have /ɛː/, not even /eː/. See e.g. this clip (YouTube).

Yeah, but that's before /r/, where many German varieties, including regiolects of StG, do funny things with mid front vowels. For instance, one of the people recorded had a very noticeably closer vowel in später than in werde.

Posted: **Wed Mar 26, 2025 9:41 am**

And actually the vast majority of those German-speakers recorded had something awfully close to my native English Mary/merry/marry, which is [ɛ̝(ː)ʁˤ], minus the pharyngealization.

Posted: **Wed Mar 26, 2025 9:52 am**

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Mar 25, 2025 9:24 am
Creyeditor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 25, 2025 3:27 am
Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 9:27 am One thing I noticed from listening to the song Nebel by Rammstein is that Till Lindemann pronounces the word geküsst as what sounds like gek[ø]sst to my ears. Note that while Till Lindemann sings in StG, I have heard things from Germans saying he pronounces it with a noticeable accent beyond mere aspects of "stage German". Any thoughts on this?
Yes, it is close to Stage German (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BChnendeutsch). Which was a defined standard that radio and tv announcers were trained in. t makes sense that they would keep the vowels as distinct as possible. It was used before and during second world war and, in Western Germany, it was also used to some extent in the time after the war. Hitler's speeches are influenced by this but so is the radio live report on Das Wunder von Bern. To me, that makes Rammstein sound old-timey and like they want to go to war (my subjective opinion). One of the reasons why I never liked the music.
So to you Stage German is militaristic in and of itself, even when there is no other association with National Socialism?

It sounds militaristic to me, yes. And it's independent of political affiliation. Earlier socialist speeches and music also sound militaristic to me.

Posted: **Sat Mar 29, 2025 10:34 am**

german /e:/ has always been perfectly distinct from /i:/ when i hear it spoken, certainly much more so than hungarian /e:/ which (at least in the music of neoton familia which is my only real interaction with the language) is virtually indistinguishable from /i:/

Posted: **Thu Apr 10, 2025 7:09 am**

While listening to a podcast I thought I heard Spaten, but in the meaning of "enthousiast, afficionado, connaisseur". Is this sense commonly found?

Posted: **Thu Apr 10, 2025 7:24 am**

Raholeun wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 7:09 am While listening to a podcast I thought I heard Spaten, but in the meaning of "enthousiast, afficionado, connaisseur". Is this sense commonly found?

It wasn't when I was growing up, but I'm a 40-something who doesn't really know what young people get up to these days, and I don't know that much about the German Internet, so...

Posted: **Thu Apr 10, 2025 8:21 am**

Raphael wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 7:24 am
Raholeun wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 7:09 am While listening to a podcast I thought I heard Spaten, but in the meaning of "enthousiast, afficionado, connaisseur". Is this sense commonly found?
It wasn't when I was growing up, but I'm a 40-something who doesn't really know what young people get up to these days, and I don't know that much about the German Internet, so...

For me, as a native German speaker in his 50s, this is the first time I've heard of this expression. I wonder, though, if is is related to the English expression to dig in the meaning of "to be a fan of".

Posted: **Thu Apr 10, 2025 9:50 am**

The original context was the podcaster referencing his subject matter as very niche and thus interesting for specialists in particular. So perhaps the link was/is Spaten as (Fach)idioten?

EDIT: I am paraphrasing the quote, but it was something like "Ich mach' diesen Podcast natürlich für die Spaten, die sich wirklich in dieses Thema eingearbeitet haben".

Posted: **Thu Apr 10, 2025 10:15 am**

Can someone tell me why the genitive of Fachidiot is Fachidioten? I'd've expected it to've been *Fachidiots. Is it a 'weak' noun?

Posted: **Thu Apr 10, 2025 10:20 am**

Travis B. wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 10:15 amCan someone tell me why the genitive of Fachidiot is Fachidioten? I'd've expected it to've been *Fachidiots. Is it a 'weak' noun?

Why would you assume so? "Fachidioten" is nominative plural. Also, there's no 'weak' vs. 'strong' nouns in German? Or are you referring to the way plurals are made?

JAL

Posted: **Thu Apr 10, 2025 11:13 am**

jal wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 10:20 am
Travis B. wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 10:15 amCan someone tell me why the genitive of Fachidiot is Fachidioten? I'd've expected it to've been *Fachidiots. Is it a 'weak' noun?
Why would you assume so? "Fachidioten" is nominative plural. Also, there's no 'weak' vs. 'strong' nouns in German? Or are you referring to the way plurals are made?

There is such a class of nouns as 'weak' masculine nouns. And Wiktionary says:

Wiktionary wrote: Noun
Fachidiot m (weak, genitive Fachidioten, plural Fachidioten)

(derogatory) fachidiot (a specialist expert who is ignorant outside of their specialty)
Synonym: (Austria) Fachtrottel

And I completely missed there that Wiktionary itself says that Fachidiot is a 'weak' masculine noun...

Posted: **Thu Apr 10, 2025 2:03 pm**

Amazing, I was today years old...

EDIT: I had no idea.

JAL

Posted: **Thu Apr 10, 2025 2:04 pm**

jal wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 2:03 pm Amazing, I was today years old...

JAL

I know how you feel, and German is my first language.

Posted: **Fri Apr 11, 2025 7:55 am**

Re Spaten, I'm nearing 60, and I never heard it in that meaning, so it looks like a recent development. If it's recent, I can very easily have missed it, because I don't frequent the German internet much and my consumption of German radio and TV is also limited nowadays.

Posted: **Sun Apr 13, 2025 2:11 pm**

Wie weiss man welchen Genus Webseiten haben? Heisst es 'der, die oder das Wikipedia/Youtube/Facebook' usw?
Und welchen Kasus verwendet man nach 'auf'?

Heisst es 'auf der (fem. dat.) wunderschönen Youtube'? Oder 'auf das (neutr. akk.) wunderschöne Youtube'? Oder sonstwas?

Haben alle Webseiten den gleichen Genus?

Posted: **Sun Apr 13, 2025 2:46 pm**

Ich glaube, dass man Dativ für 'on' und Akkusativ für 'onto' benutzen würde.

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