Zompist Bboard Again

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2026 8:36 am

zompist wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2026 6:32 am

Raphael wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2026 2:56 pm Different question: Short or long vowel in "Sikh"?

My dictionary (American Heritage) has /sik/. Ironically, (Indian) Sikhs say /sɪkʰ/, after the Punjabi.

The problem is that /ɪ/ in loans isn't foreign enough, so if a loan isn't from another Germanic language we have to make it more foreign by tensing it to /i/.

Also, there are unfortunate implications of calling something ‘the Sick religion’…

bradrn wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2026 8:52 amAlso, there are unfortunate implications of calling something ‘the Sick religion’…

Yeah, "sick" isn't exactly a pronunciation you'd want to associate with a religion or a people...


JAL

Currywurst?

anteallach wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2026 3:28 am Currywurst?

I would say /ˈkɜriˌwɜrst/ [ˈkʰʁ̩ˤːʁˤiːˌwʁ̩ˤsʲtʲ] in English.

I have /ˈkʰʌɹɪjˌvɜːst/ [ˈkʰʌɹ̠ʷɪjvɜ̰ˑs̪ʔ] in English, replacing the curry with the equivalent English.

It is traditional here to pronounce <w> in words of German origin as /w/ with the exception of the composer Wagner /ˈvɑknər/ [ˈvaʔknʁ̩ˤ(ː)] (but note that that last name is normally /ˈwæɡnər/ [ˈwɛː{ɡ,k}nʁ̩ˤ(ː)] here).

Lērisama wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2026 10:40 am I have /ˈkʰʌɹɪjˌvɜːst/ [ˈkʰʌɹ̠ʷɪjvɜ̰ˑs̪ʔ] in English, replacing the curry with the equivalent English.

You glottalize coda /t/ even after sibilants?

Travis B. wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2026 11:36 am

Lērisama wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2026 10:40 am I have /ˈkʰʌɹɪjˌvɜːst/ [ˈkʰʌɹ̠ʷɪjvɜ̰ˑs̪ʔ] in English, replacing the curry with the equivalent English.

You glottalize coda /t/ even after sibilants?

Yes, at least outside of higher registers, although I don't think I consistently completely debuccalise it.

Lērisama wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2026 11:40 am

Travis B. wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2026 11:36 am

Lērisama wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2026 10:40 am I have /ˈkʰʌɹɪjˌvɜːst/ [ˈkʰʌɹ̠ʷɪjvɜ̰ˑs̪ʔ] in English, replacing the curry with the equivalent English.

You glottalize coda /t/ even after sibilants?

Yes, at least outside of higher registers, although I don't think I consistently completely debuccalise it.

In the dialect here coda /st/ commonly reduces to /s/ (depalatalizing in the process) but when the /t/ is pronounced it is never glottalized, unlike coda /t/ after sonorants.

Lērisama wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2026 10:40 am I have /ˈkʰʌɹɪjˌvɜːst/ [ˈkʰʌɹ̠ʷɪjvɜ̰ˑs̪ʔ] in English, replacing the curry with the equivalent English.

Any views (from you or anyone else) of how you'd pronounce it when speaking German?

anteallach wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2026 8:08 am

Lērisama wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2026 10:40 am I have /ˈkʰʌɹɪjˌvɜːst/ [ˈkʰʌɹ̠ʷɪjvɜ̰ˑs̪ʔ] in English, replacing the curry with the equivalent English.

Any views (from you or anyone else) of how you'd pronounce it when speaking German?

I'm not a native German speaker, but I'd say /ˌkʊʁiˈvʊʁst/ [ˌkʰʊʁiˈvoˑɐ̯s̪t].

Edit: on quoting, realised I missed an /ʁ/

Lērisama wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2026 9:39 am

anteallach wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2026 8:08 am

Lērisama wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2026 10:40 am I have /ˈkʰʌɹɪjˌvɜːst/ [ˈkʰʌɹ̠ʷɪjvɜ̰ˑs̪ʔ] in English, replacing the curry with the equivalent English.

Any views (from you or anyone else) of how you'd pronounce it when speaking German?

I'm not a native German speaker, but I'd say /ˌkʊriˈvʊʁst/ [ˌkʰʊʁiˈvoˑɐ̯s̪t].

I am a native German speaker, and I say ['kəʀɪvʊɐ̯st].

I have a feeling that when I ordered one in Berlin a few years ago I said something like [ˈkʰɔ̈ɹɪvʊɐst], i.e. my English curry plus a definitely German Wurst. I might be misremembering, but I wouldn't have known which German vowel to use.

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2026 10:31 am

Lērisama wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2026 9:39 am

anteallach wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2026 8:08 am

Any views (from you or anyone else) of how you'd pronounce it when speaking German?

I'm not a native German speaker, but I'd say /ˌkʊriˈvʊʁst/ [ˌkʰʊʁiˈvoˑɐ̯s̪t].

I am a native German speaker, and I say ['kəʀɪvʊɐ̯st].

Do you really pronounce it with a uvular trill?

Travis B. wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2026 4:03 pm

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2026 10:31 am

Lērisama wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2026 9:39 am

I'm not a native German speaker, but I'd say /ˌkʊriˈvʊʁst/ [ˌkʰʊʁiˈvoˑɐ̯s̪t].

I am a native German speaker, and I say ['kəʀɪvʊɐ̯st].

Do you really pronounce it with a uvular trill?

Actually, not always - only in careful speech. Otherwise, it tends to become just a velar or uvular fricative, I am not sure which.

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2026 10:31 amI am a native German speaker, and I say ['kəʀɪvʊɐ̯st].

Without an aspirated [k]? I'd expect ['kʰəʀɪvʊɐ̯st]


JAL

Just for reference, Dutch pronunciation would be /ˈkʏriˌʋurst/, so as if written "kurriewoerst".


JAL

jal wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2026 7:09 am

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2026 10:31 amI am a native German speaker, and I say ['kəʀɪvʊɐ̯st].

Without an aspirated [k]? I'd expect ['kʰəʀɪvʊɐ̯st]

Of course, the /k/ is aspirated! How could I miss that? Well, it is not easy to transcribe one's native language phonetically - you are likely to miss allophonies.

anteallach wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2026 3:28 am Currywurst?

Unless I'm speaking with other Americans*, it's normally something like [ˈkʰuɾiˌvʊɐ̯st]: I tend to more have [ɾ~r] for <r> in German, though this is because I grew up in Bavaria where the standard <r> is an alveolar trill. (This was very confusing when I spent a summer in Leipzig.)

*I often have to Americanize my pronunciation for plenty of things when going back to the US to visit; otherwise, a lot of people just stare blankly at me. (To be honest, though, staring often happens.)

anteallach wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2026 3:28 am Currywurst?

to a fellow english person, [ˈkʰɝiwɝst], but if I were in Germany reading the word for the first time and failing an honest attempt to sound not like a foreigner, [ˈkʰə(ʁ)¹ivəst]. (needless to say, my German is not immaculate.)

¹I notice that in non-careful speech I have an annoyingly strong tendency to drop the [ʁ] here.