Zompist Bboard Again

/ˌnɐ.ˈɾɛn.dɚ.ˌduːd/ wrote: ↑Sun Feb 22, 2026 10:10 pm How do y'all pronounce colonel? I've always pronounced it /ˈkɚnəl/, but I've heard several people pronounce it as it's spelled, and it got me wondering which is correct.

It's always [ˈkʰɝnəl̪] for me, which incidentally also rhymes with kernel, but I grew up in a military environment, so it's a word I'm used to.

On a related note, how do you (all) pronounce lieutenant? (For me, it's about [l̪uˈtɛnənt], which is also the pronunciation I heard most as a kid.)

lëtzeshark wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2026 7:54 amOn a related note, how do you (all) pronounce lieutenant?

/lɛfˈtɛnənt/, as my pronunciation (as a non-native speaker) is mostly informed by British English.


JAL

I pronounce lieutenant as /luˈtɛnənt/ [ʟ̞uˈtʰɜ̃ːɾ̃ɘ̃ʔ]~[ʟ̞uˈtʰɜ̃ːɘ̯̃ʔ], which shouldn't be surprising.

I think I'll make it dependent on which institution the officer in question is serving in.

lëtzeshark wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2026 7:54 amOn a related note, how do you (all) pronounce lieutenant?

/luːtʰɛnɪʔ/ [lɪ̯uːtʰɛ̃nɪ̃nʔ] for me.

lëtzeshark wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2026 7:54 am

/ˌnɐ.ˈɾɛn.dɚ.ˌduːd/ wrote: ↑Sun Feb 22, 2026 10:10 pm How do y'all pronounce colonel? I've always pronounced it /ˈkɚnəl/, but I've heard several people pronounce it as it's spelled, and it got me wondering which is correct.

It's always [ˈkʰɝnəl̪] for me, which incidentally also rhymes with kernel, but I grew up in a military environment, so it's a word I'm used to.

On a related note, how do you (all) pronounce lieutenant? (For me, it's about [l̪uˈtɛnənt], which is also the pronunciation I heard most as a kid.)

BTW, do you pronounce even coda /l/ as a dental 'clear l' in English?

Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2026 6:14 pm

lëtzeshark wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2026 7:54 am

/ˌnɐ.ˈɾɛn.dɚ.ˌduːd/ wrote: ↑Sun Feb 22, 2026 10:10 pm How do y'all pronounce colonel? I've always pronounced it /ˈkɚnəl/, but I've heard several people pronounce it as it's spelled, and it got me wondering which is correct.

It's always [ˈkʰɝnəl̪] for me, which incidentally also rhymes with kernel, but I grew up in a military environment, so it's a word I'm used to.

On a related note, how do you (all) pronounce lieutenant? (For me, it's about [l̪uˈtɛnənt], which is also the pronunciation I heard most as a kid.)

BTW, do you pronounce even coda /l/ as a dental 'clear l' in English?

It might be between [ɫ~l̪], but I do have a dental contact at the end of the sound (might be a semi-syllabic consonant with a preceding [ə]), which is probably why I transcribed it that way. (I have a somewhat nonstandard English by US standards, which leads people to sometimes ask where I'm from when I'm in the US.)


Other one that I just thought of, but because I hear it pronounced a very... "particular" way quite often: how do you pronounce determine? (And this is especially for non-native speakers.) I pronounce it [dɪˈtʰɝmɪn], incidentally.

lëtzeshark wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2026 1:27 am Other one that I just thought of, but because I hear it pronounced a very... "particular" way quite often: how do you pronounce determine? (And this is especially for non-native speakers.) I pronounce it [dɪˈtʰɝmɪn], incidentally.

That's how I pronounce it as well. I guess the peculiar pronunciation you refer to is along the lines of [dɪtɝ'maɪ̯n], which I have sometimes heard from non-native speakers?

Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2026 6:14 pm

lëtzeshark wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2026 7:54 am

/ˌnɐ.ˈɾɛn.dɚ.ˌduːd/ wrote: ↑Sun Feb 22, 2026 10:10 pm How do y'all pronounce colonel? I've always pronounced it /ˈkɚnəl/, but I've heard several people pronounce it as it's spelled, and it got me wondering which is correct.

It's always [ˈkʰɝnəl̪] for me, which incidentally also rhymes with kernel, but I grew up in a military environment, so it's a word I'm used to.

On a related note, how do you (all) pronounce lieutenant? (For me, it's about [l̪uˈtɛnənt], which is also the pronunciation I heard most as a kid.)

BTW, do you pronounce even coda /l/ as a dental 'clear l' in English?

My dark L is dental: in a word like, well, dental it is quite noticeable that the tongue touches the teeth, whereas for the other coronals the contact is alveolar as expected.

lëtzeshark wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2026 1:27 am Other one that I just thought of, but because I hear it pronounced a very... "particular" way quite often: how do you pronounce determine? (And this is especially for non-native speakers.) I pronounce it [dɪˈtʰɝmɪn], incidentally.

My usual pronunciation of determine is equivalent to yours, being /dəˈtɜrmən/ [d̥ɘˈtʲʰʁ̩̃ˤːmɘ̃(ː)(n)], but when I stress the word I often have /diˈtɜrmən/ [d̥iˈtʲʰʁ̩̃ˤːmɘ̃(ː)(n)].

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2026 8:08 am

lëtzeshark wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2026 1:27 am Other one that I just thought of, but because I hear it pronounced a very... "particular" way quite often: how do you pronounce determine? (And this is especially for non-native speakers.) I pronounce it [dɪˈtʰɝmɪn], incidentally.

My usual pronunciation of determine is equivalent to yours, being /dəˈtɜrmən/ [d̥ɘˈtʲʰʁ̩̃ˤːmɘ̃(ː)(n)], but when I stress the word I often have /diˈtɜrmən/ [d̥iˈtʲʰʁ̩̃ˤːmɘ̃(ː)(n)].

Sometimes the [diˈtʰɝmɪn] pronunciation is also present for me, but it's not very common. (At least in the dictionary, both are correct.)

hwhatting wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2026 2:12 am That's how I pronounce it as well. I guess the peculiar pronunciation you refer to is along the lines of [dɪtɝ'maɪ̯n], which I have sometimes heard from non-native speakers?

Exactly that. I first heard it from my Hungarian ex-boss loooooong ago (clearly not native), and I hear it here and there at conferences. Bit nails-on-a-chalkboard-like.

lëtzeshark wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2026 2:40 pm

hwhatting wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2026 2:12 am That's how I pronounce it as well. I guess the peculiar pronunciation you refer to is along the lines of [dɪtɝ'maɪ̯n], which I have sometimes heard from non-native speakers?

Exactly that. I first heard it from my Hungarian ex-boss loooooong ago (clearly not native), and I hear it here and there at conferences. Bit nails-on-a-chalkboard-like.

Oh god, now I can't help but think of that pronunciation (which I have never heard IRL) and how wrong it sounds...

How do people here pronounce "disclaimer"? I used to pronounce it /dIs."cl{mr=/, but now I say /dIs."clemr=/, because I misheard the /e/ as a raised /{/ before /m/ that many people have, but I lack. Has this happened to anybody else?

lëtzeshark wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2026 1:27 amOther one that I just thought of, but because I hear it pronounced a very... "particular" way quite often: how do you pronounce determine? (And this is especially for non-native speakers.) I pronounce it [dɪˈtʰɝmɪn], incidentally.

/diˈtɜːmn̩/
Not quite as one should™, but close enough to BrE I guess.

jcb wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2026 10:01 pmHow do people here pronounce "disclaimer"?

As a non-native speaker, I never made that mistake (hell, all /æ/s sound like /ɛ/s to us Dutchies), so /dɪskleɪmə/.


JAL

jcb wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2026 10:01 pm How do people here pronounce "disclaimer"? I used to pronounce it /dIs."cl{mr=/, but now I say /dIs."clemr=/, because I misheard the /e/ as a raised /{/ before /m/ that many people have, but I lack. Has this happened to anybody else?

/ˌdɪsˈkleɪ̯mər/ [tɪ̈s̟ˈkʰʟ̞̥ẽ̞ːmʁ̩ˤ(ː)]

In a sort of similar case, I mislearned Star Trek as /ˈstɑrˌtræk/ because I mapped other people's [ɛ] onto my /æ/ [ɛ] rather than /ɛ/ because my native /ɛ/ is [ɜ].

Similarly, I have ketchup /ˈkætʃəp/ [ˈkʰɛtʃəʔp].

disclaimer = [ˈdɪsq̟ɫæɪmɐ] (I jave a universally dark /l/ that causes backing of /k/. Does it mean that the L could somehow be uvular??)
ketchup = [tʰəˌmäːɾɐʉ̯ˈsoːs]

Imralu wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2026 4:35 pm ketchup = [tʰəˌmäːɾɐʉ̯ˈsoːs]

Lol.

(Yes, we do have something called "tomato sauce" here in the US, but you don't use it as a condiment, unless by a very far stretch of the imagination you consider spaghetti sauce to be a 'condiment'.)

Travis B. wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2026 4:57 pm (Yes, we do have something called "tomato sauce" here in the US, but you don't use it as a condiment, unless by a very far stretch of the imagination you consider spaghetti sauce to be a 'condiment'.)

That's [ˌbɔɫəˈnæɪ̯z], if it's not specifically bolognaise, then [tʰəˌmäːɾɐʉ̯ ˌbæɪ̯st ˈpʰäːstə ˌsoːs] or [tʰəˌmäːɾɐʉ̯ ˌpʰæɪ̯st] ("Spaghetti sauce" doesn't make any sense to me. That's a shape of pasta. It doesn't specify the sauce.). Ketchup apparently exists here, but it's not popular and regarded as something American. This is tomato sauce. This is not.

Imralu wrote: ↑Fri May 15, 2026 12:39 am

Travis B. wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2026 4:57 pm (Yes, we do have something called "tomato sauce" here in the US, but you don't use it as a condiment, unless by a very far stretch of the imagination you consider spaghetti sauce to be a 'condiment'.)

That's [ˌbɔɫəˈnæɪ̯z], if it's not specifically bolognaise, then [tʰəˌmäːɾɐʉ̯ ˌbæɪ̯st ˈpʰäːstə ˌsoːs] or [tʰəˌmäːɾɐʉ̯ ˌpʰæɪ̯st] ("Spaghetti sauce" doesn't make any sense to me. That's a shape of pasta. It doesn't specify the sauce.). Ketchup apparently exists here, but it's not popular and regarded as something American. This is tomato sauce. This is not.

There is a difference between tomato sauce and what we know as spaghetti sauce. Tomato sauce is essentially just tomatoes, water, salt, and possibily a bit of spices -- nothing else. Spaghetti sauce is what you get when you add other things with the intent of putting it on spaghetti (or like) noodles. Note that most Americans won't recognize the word 'bolognese' -- what you know as 'bolognese' we know as 'spaghetti' and the noodles by themselves are 'spaghetti noodles' to us.