IE and Basque: Blevins' proposal

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Znex
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IE and Basque: Blevins' proposal

Post by Znex »

So I've been reading over the last months a recent book formally proposing a link between the Indo-European languages and Basque: Advances in Proto-Basque Reconstruction with Evidence for the Proto-Indo-European-Euskarian Hypothesis by Prof. Juliette Blevins. For those who missed the news over the last years, Prof. Blevins, an accomplished phonologist and linguist in her own right, boldly announced her research into a genetic relationship between Basque and Indo-European at the 21st International Conference on Historical Linguistics in Oslo in 2013, and has continued in subsequent years. The proposal is controversial to begin with, not least because of many past proposals trying to link Basque with other languages lacking proper or reliable methodology, but also because the many past years of language contact and lack of Basque corpus material obscure any relationship between Basque and any other language. Nevertheless Blevins shows impressive reliance on established methodology and builds on already well-established theory on the nature of reconstructed Basque in this proposal. My interest was drawn most particularly because of this methodology-motivated reconstruction, so when I saw that her book had been published this year, and then that no one up to this date (so far as I know) had written a review yet on this, I bought an e-book copy of this and have been reading through up til now, where I thought I might write my views and summarise it a bit so anyone interested might be able to form their own views on this proposal as well. I will also provide some etymologies and examples as provided in the book as appropriate.

The book is divided into three big sections with an introduction to each: Part 1 (pp.1-122), Blevins' reconstruction of Proto-Basque; Part 2 (pp.123-211), a formal comparison between Blevins' Proto-Basque and PIE; and the appendix (pp.213-386), which is devoted to the PB reconstructed words themselves and thus the etymologies of the many attested words supposed as derived from the PB roots, and their supposed cognates in PIE. The first two sections are divided into 7 and 5 chapters, respectively.

The chapters and their contents I do no justice by summarising, but nevertheless: Part 1 has an introduction (pp.1-12) outlining the well-established nature of Basque as a language, its crosslingual influences in the form of loanwords, and a general overview of Part 1, then chapter 1 (pp.13-25) addresses the current scholarly consensuses (notably by Mitxelena and Lakarra) regarding the nature of Proto-Basque. The following chapters contain Blevins' own developments of an earlier stage of Proto-Basque (her proposed phonology is shown in the material below the disclaimer) as based on the scholarly foundation: chapter 2 addresses the PB vowels (pp.26-36), in reference to a curious root variant: CVhVC, compound forms and potential root relationships (eg. *kʰei {animal sleeping place} to *kʰoi {bed}), chapter 3: the PB consonants (pp.37-82), as can also be reconstructed by reference to compound and affixed words, and in reference to Aquitanian and older Basques, and conservative dialectal allophony (eg. Eastern dialects have aspirated stops, distinctive /h/, and long vowels), chapter 4: the PB phonotactics and syllable structure (pp.83-99), taking a further look at the affect of compounding and affixing on the nature of PB, with their diachronic consequences, chapter 5: the PB stress and accent system (pp.100-115), with its various diachronic consequences (eg. the sometimes survival of medial *sTʰ and initial *h), and finally chapter 6: the evaluated research consequences of this proposal of PB (pp.117-122), including a segmental sound change summary list (this is shown in the material below the disclaimer with examples).

Part 2's introduction (pp.125-132) discusses the distinct nature of Blevin's PB to earlier PB reconstructions and its at-first superficial resemblances with PIE, recognising the detailed and thorough history and scholarship behind the reconstruction of PIE, and PIE's unique phonological distinctions (eg. the velar series, the three laryngeals, and the three stop series lacking *b, vocalic ablaut), the problem of time depth and its relation to archaising languages (some well-known as PIE vs. Lithuanian, and Old Norse vs. Icelandic; others such as Proto-Austronesian vs. Paiwan, a Formosan language), and the strong scholarly foundation and historical confirmation of the validity of the comparative method, and Blevins' concessions made for the as-of-yet limited nature of her PB (ie. none-to-little morphological comparison, so instead assessing for Nichols 1996's "individual-identifying evidence", and hence using some statistical analysis), followed by a general overview of Part 2. The following chapters contain Blevins' proposed comparisons. Chapter 7 (pp.133-150) addresses Blevins' proposed regular consonant and vowel sound correspondences (initial and medial) between PB and PIE, including her proposed cognates, and some regular discrepancies (eg. PB *(D)VRhV vs. PIE *(D)hVRV, PB *skʰ vs. PIE *Ks). (These correspondences are shown in part, in full, or expanded upon in the material below the disclaimer.) Chapter 8 (pp.151-183) follows Blevins' attempts at establishing statistical significance for the sound-meaning correspondences given in chapter 7, particularly regarding vocalic ablaut (as in the set PB *stʰVh {stand > be} vs. PIE *stVh₂ {to stand}), the lower numerals ({1} PB *{e/o}hi-kʰ{a/o} vs. PIE *oy-ko-, {2} PB *bi vs. PIE *dwóh₁,*dwi-, {3} PB *tʰiri vs. PIE *tréyes,*tri-; along with other basic numerical correspondences), homophones (particularly regarding four corresponding PB *bVn vs. PIE *mVn pairs), and Nichols' individual-identifying words (eg. Blevins identifies B hezur {bone} < PB *hasTʰur with Arm. oskr {bone}, Alb. asht {bone}, and Wel. asgwrn {bone} < *h₂ést-r-), followed by Swadesh word-list comparison (by Kessler 2001's "Monte Carlo" method; removing potential loanwords and root doubles). Chapter 9 (pp.184-200) compares the synchronic and diachronic phonologies between PB and PIE, linking parallel sound processes (in contrast to those motivated by area), and chapter 10 (pp.201-211) concludes by evaluating the research consequences for studying IE and PIE in light of such a comparison (eg. **b > PB *b, PIE *m,*p,*w, the origins of the *Dʰ series, PIE root extensions).

The book in its first read is really straightforward as far as a scholarly treatise goes, with little need for backtracking or skipping between chapters, as Blevins visibly maintains and reiterates her established train of thought as the book goes on. Each chapter with its sections is easily revisited by the reader to refer to, specific data is visibly sectioned and tabled, and any interesting points the reader may wish to follow up on have their section pointed out in the text. Through the book, Blevins' attention to the controversy of linking Basque to any outside language is very clear (p.7;128,129-131;147-149), and the work she does to make plain her proposal and evidence is obvious and well thought-out. It is really best read as a whole so to fully reason through her argument, but each chapter is succinct and thought-provoking. The more controversial parts of her PB reconstruction are all-the-more highlighted and worked through the same as the other material with evidence, particularly in chapter 3 (pp.37-82) which is a shining example (she here addresses her *pʰ, *sTʰ series, and *m). Chapter 8 (pp.151-183) and 9 (pp.184-200) are also very appreciated by me, though I must admit my own inadequacy at evaluating the validity of the statistical methods used in chapter 8 (although the simple probability calculations are not unlike Zompist's own for instance, and actively avoiding the excesses of some comparisons he speaks against there; but I have listed a number of correspondences down below the disclaimer so that the reader may decide for themself).

I really appreciate the extent of the evidence that Blevins draws from, and this without referring to PIE at first for her reconstructions. Blevins pulls together the compounding and typological evidence in addition to narrow down older roots, recognising semantic and phonological similarities between pairs and highlighting skewed sound distributions and typology comparisons as motivation for further analysis (as in p.48,54-55). She is well aware of the distinct dialects and their own sound systems and tendencies and clearly marks dialectal variants used where relevant, and also recognises their limits. Overall Blevins approaches the Basque data and scholarship respectively and conscientiously, not speeding to any final conclusion without nailing down the relevant evidence and establishing regular correspondences.

Blevins' work treats primarily the Proto-Basque phonology and its comparison with PIE, and treats Proto-Basque as a potential relative, not a descendant of PIE. A morphological reconstruction and comparison however is sorely missed (although Blevins treats this in part: eg. accented PB particles, apparent ablaut, affixes and compounding); an included morphological comparison seems likely to have firmly established any correspondence with PIE and shed further light on the exact nature of the correspondence, and antecedent morphological developments into PB and PIE. On the one hand, morphological comparisons have not always shed further light on macro-genetic relationships; the nature of any morphological comparison for the Indo-Uralic proposal for instance is limited by the size of the morphemes involved, the relative sizes of the compared phonologies, and hence by random chance. However, a famous recent macrolinguistic relationship proposal was made exactly on the basis of regular and extensive morphological correspondences: Vajda's Dené-Yeniseian.

Blevins' book is not easily the work of an inept enthusiast or a delusional comparativist when you read through it. She starts from the well-established foundation of Proto-Basque scholarship and works forward using the same tools and principles and referring to well-analysed primary source material. Where she moves into macrolinguistic comparison, she works the same way; not settling with a simple list of correspondences, but going further to pinpoint every available piece of evidence that may suggest more than superficial or areal relationship, and using the evidence to inform her conclusions. This is not grabbing at straws, but at each point reaching for the maximum amount of evidence as has been concluded by diachronic linguists as indicating a significant genetic relationship between two languages. In the end, I found Blevins' book both really pleasant and intriguing to read. I hope to read a sequel to this detailing her morphological reconstruction of PB and such a comparison with PIE, especially in light of the current view that Proto-Basque was likely isolating and how that affects the comparison. I also hope to see some more scholarly views on this, which I hope this review facilitates discussion regarding. Even supposing as a cynic that many of these correspondences are in the end pure coincidence or conflated with loanwords, some of the correspondences may spark some further talk into the nature of macrolinguistic comparison and the older natures of the languages concerned.

- Znex 2019

Disclaimer: None of the provided material below is mine, but has been edited to include examples and correspondences for clarity's sake, mostly from the book; IE examples have been sourced from Wiktionary and other webpages. The material is otherwise expounded upon in Blevins' book itself. If I should otherwise remove how much detail is below for reasons I have neglected, please inform a moderator or admin by pressing report on my post.

Modern Basque:
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Consonants: (20~23)

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        /m/ <m>               /n/ <n>     /ɲ/ <ñ,-in->
        /p/ <p>    /t/ <t>                /c/ <tt,-it->     /k/ <c>
        /b/ <b>    /d/ <d>                /ɟ/ <dd,-id->     /g/ <g>
                   /t̪s̻/ <tz>  /t̺s̺/ <ts>   /tʃ/ <tx>
        /f/ <f>    /s̻/ <z>    /s̺/ <s>     /ʃ/ <x>                     /∅~h/ <h>
        			          /j~x/ <j>
        	              /l/ <l>     /ʎ/ <ll,-il->
        	              /r/ <r,-rr-> 
                              /ɾ/ <-r->
Vowels: (5~10+dipth)

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  /i (iː)/ <i>            /u (uː)/ <u>
  /e (eː)/ <e>            /o (oː)/ <o>
            /a (aː)/ <a>
Proto-Basque (Mitxelena 1977):
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Consonants: (16)

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FORTIS       ---        *t          *k          *tz          *ts          *N          *L          *R
LENIS        *b         *d          *g          *z           *s           *n          *l          *r
NEUTRAL													       *h
Vowels: (5+dipth)

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  *i           *u           *e           *o           *a
                            *ei          *oi          *ai
                            *eu          *ou          *au
Syllable structure:

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(C)V(W)(R)(S)(T)
where W = {i u}, R = {r l n}, S = {z s tz ts}, T = {b d g t k}
Proto-Basque (Lakarra 2013):
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Consonants: (11)

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Onset       *b        *t,*d       *k,*g        *z        *s        *n        ---       ---        *h
Coda       ---        ---          ---         *z        *s        *n        *l        *r
Vowels: (5)

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  *i           *u           *e           *o           *a
Root structure:

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(On)V(Cd)
where On = onset cons., Cd = coda cons., as above
Pre-/Early Proto-Basque (Blevins 2018):
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Consonants: (12)

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ASPIRATED          *pʰ        *tʰ         *kʰ
UNASPIRATED        *b         *d          *g
FRICATIVE                     *s                      *h
NASAL              *m         *n
LIQUID                        *l,*r
Vowels: (5)

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  *i           *u           *e           *o           *a
Syllable structure:

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(s)(C)V(C)(s)
From Pre-Proto-Basque to Modern Basque:
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Early PB to Mid PB:

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Root vowel alternations (a~e~o~u~i)	eg. *kʰei > hei~ehi {stable,animal bed}, *kʰoi > ohi {bed}
Tʰ > T / s_ (panchronic)
m > n / _#
b > m / #_VN				eg. *ben-di > mendi {mountain}
m > b /#_e[-nas]			eg. *mel-s > beltz {black}, but *ha-mel-s  > ametz {black oak}
nb > mb (panchronic)
d > l / #_(V)h				eg. *duhur > luhur~lur {earth}, *en-duhur > edur~elhur~elur {snow}
{e o} > a / _][				eg. bide {road} + gin {maker} > bidagin {road-builder}, lepo {shoulder} + kari {profession} > lepakari {porter}
	{i u} > ∅ / _][		eg. begi {eye} + azal {skin} > betazal {eyelid}, *bini {tongue} + gain {top} > mingain {tongue, clapper}
VX.+ > V in σ𝓌				eg. *gor+gór > gogor {hard}, lur+gín > lugin {farmer} 
	V > ∅ / VC_CV in σ𝓌	
	ks > sk				compare PB *deskʰo {right hand} vs. PIE *deḱs- {right}
s > z = [s̻] /._C, C_.
	{.zC Cz.} > z			eg. *ha-stʰun > astun {heavy}, azun {full,loaded}; *gihan-s > gantz {fat}, *gihan-s-ta > gazta~ganzta~gazna {cheese}
{s z} > {ts tz} / _# 			eg. *sas > sats {dirt,muck}, *sas+tamar > sastamar {flotsam}
Mid PB to Late PB:

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h > ∅ / #[_ in σ𝓌			eg. *hi-bá-r > ibar {valley}, but *hástʰur > hezur~azur {bone}
	d > ∅ / #_			eg. *dokʰi > uki {sense of touch,contact}, but *he-dokʰi > edoki~eduki {to have,possess,hold} 
	Tʰ > h / #_			eg. *pʰo-i-n > hoin {foot}, but *or+pʰo > orpo {heel}; *kʰari > hari {occupation}, but *hegin+kʰari > egi(n)kari {action, deed}
	(D)h'VR > (D)VRh		eg. *gahar+opʰil > garhophil > garropil {flame-cooked cake}
{r l n} > ∅ / _{z,tz}.			eg. *gihansta > gazta~etc. {cheese}
Late PB to Common Basque:

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mb > m (sporadic)			eg. *senbe > seme {son}
{e i} > {a e} / h_r			eg. *behe-r > behar {need,obligation} 
rh > rr=[r] / V_V𝓌			eg. *gor-hi > gorhi > gorri {red}, *gor-i > gori {burning}
	l > r=[ɾ] / V_V			eg. *hol-i > hori {yellow}, but *belhe > bele {crow}
n > h̃ / V_V				eg. *bini > mih̃i~mihi {tongue}, but *bini+gain > mingain {clapper}
Pre-dialectal changes:

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{t d s ts tz n l} > {c~tʃ ɟ~j ʃ tʃ tʃ ɲ ʎ} (diminutive)	eg. *stʰaha-r > zahar {old} > txar {cantankerous > bad}, *tʰaga > haga {pole} > txaga {little pole}
DVhV > DhV > D,T in a compound word	eg. *ha-behe > habe {column,pillar}, *duhur-behe > luurpe~lurpe~lupʰe {underground}
Dialect differentiation:

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{h Tʰ} > {∅ T} / #..._ in σ𝓌		eg. Aq. ARTEHE vs. MB arte {holm oak}, MidB Huri+zahar {Oldtown} > Hurizaar~Hurizar
H...H > H depending on stress		eg. hil+herri > hilerri~ilherri {cemetery}, Lat. piper > biper~pʰiper {pepper}
H > ∅ (Western h-loss)
h > ∅ / V(l,n)_V𝓌
h̃ > h (General except northernmost)
rtz > st				eg. bortz~bost {5}
Modern dialectal changes:

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{s z} > {z s} / _...{z s}
{s z} > s (westernmost changes)
	{ts tz} > tz
e > a /_r				eg. aker~akar {billy goat}
Basque and IE sound correspondences
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Consonants:
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	PB						PIE						Basque							IE
	*pʰ						*p						*pʰel {warm} 						*pelh₁- {to warm up}
													> *ha-pʰel > epel {warm}				> Pol. palić {to heat,burn}
													> *pʰel+gaitz > helgaitz (fever)
													*lepʰo {flat}						*lep- {to be flat}
													> lepo {neck,shoulder}					> PG lōfô > Ic. lófi {palm}
													> lepaka {mountain plateau}				> Lit. lopa {paw,claw}
	
	*(s)pʰ						*(s)p						*spʰi	{point}						*spey- {sharp point}
													> zi {pinecone,reed,point,tip}				> *spey-neh₂ > La. spina {thorny tree,thorn,spine}
													> *hi-spʰi > ispi~izpi {ray,stem,point}			> *spey-ro > En. spire
	
	*tʰ						*t						*tʰus {empty}						*tews- {to be empty}
													> huts {empty}						> *tus-sḱ-yos > Lit. tùščias {empty,hollow,worthless}, Pers. تهی tohi {empty}
													> *orpʰo+*tʰus > ortuts {barefoot} 			> PG *þustaz > OE þost {excrement, dung}
													*atʰa {father}						*at- {father}
													> aita {father}						> Hit. áttas {father}, Anc.Gr. ἄττα {father (VOC)}, Got. atta {father}
													> *atʰa+goni > Aq. ATTACONIS, B aitagoi {patriach,
													grandfather}
	
	*(s)tʰ						*(s)t						*(s)tʰegi {cover,shelter}				*(s)teg- {to shelter}
													> hegi {roof eaves}					> *(s)teg-os > Anc.Gr. (σ)τέγος {roof,house}, OI tech {house} 
													> *ha-stʰegi > estegi~astei {stable}
													> *tʰus+*tʰegi > hustegi {dump}
													*stʰa(ha) {to be,exist,stand,stay}			*steh₂- {to stand}
													> *hi-stʰa-n > izan {to be,exist,COP}			> *sti-steh₂- > Anc.Gr. ἵστημι {to stand,set up}, Sans. तिष्ठति tíṣṭhati {to stand,remain,make a practice of}
													> *ha-stʰa > hasta~azta {custom,habit}			> *ste-stoh₂ > Anc.Gr. ἕστηκα {to be standing}, Sans. तस्थौ tastháu {to be standing,practise}
													> *ha-stʰa-n > hastan {standing apart,distant}
													
 	*kʰ(i)						*ḱ						*kʰon {together,with;having}				*ḱom {together,with}
 													> *kʰun {with,having} > biko(n) {double,pair},		> La. cum {with} > PRom. *con, Lit. sù {with}, PG *ga- > Got. ga- {COMPL;PF}
 													kunkuin {full,overflowing}, kunkundu {to accumulate} 
 													> *lan-kʰon > lagun {comrade,workmate,neighbour,friend}	> PG *ga-hlaibô > LLat. companio {companion,comrade,friend} 
 													*dekʰi {take out}					*deḱ- {to take}
 													> *dekʰi-so > esku {(right) hand}			> *deḱ-s- > Lat. dexter {right,skilful}, Got. taihswa {right}
 													> *he-dekʰi > edeki {to take out/away,remove}		> Anc.Gr. δέχ/κομαι {to accept,receive} 
 	
 	
 	*kʰ						*k						*kʰar {hard}						*ker- {hard}
 													> *kʰar-hi > harri {stone}				> *ke/or-t-~kre/o-t {strength} > Anc.Gr. κρατύς {strength}, Got. hardus {hard}
 													> *stʰahar+*kʰar > zakar {rough,brutal}			> ?*kar-kr- > Anc.Gr. καρκῐ́νος {crab}, Sans. कर्कट karkaṭa {crab} 
 													> *hars+*kʰar > azkar {strong,powerful}
 														
 	*kʰ(u)						*kʷ						*kʰus {see}						*kʷey-s- {to pay attention}
													> *he-kʰus-i > ekusi {to see}				> PC *ad-kwis- > OIr. ad.cí {to see,perceive}
													> *hekʰus+garri > ekusgarri {spectacle}	 		> La. cura {care,attention,administration}

 	*(s)kʰ						*(s){ḱ,k,kʷ}					*skʰa(hi) {split,cut}					*skeh₂(y)- {to cut open}
 													> *ha-skʰa > aska {trough,channel,groove}		> *skey-d- > Anc.Gr. σχίζω {to split,cleave}, La. scindo {to split,divide,tear apart}
 													> *skʰa+*tʰal > zatal {fragment, sliver}		> *skey-t- > Cz. štít {something cut off>shield}, OIr. scíath {shield}
 	
 	*b						*b?						*hi-ba-hi {river}					*h₂ep- {body of water}
 													> (h)ibai {river}					> Sans. अप् áp- {water,air}, Hit. hapaš {river}, OIr. aub {river}, Lit. ùpė {brook,river}
 													*bel {strength}						*b/mel-~*wal- {strong,better}
 													> *ha-bel/bali-a > habela~abaila {impulse, momentum}	> Sans. बल bála {strength,power,force}, Anc.Gr. βελτίων {better}
 													> *bel+hatz > belatz {raptor}				> Lat. melior {better}, Anc.Gr. μάλα {more}
 													
 	*b						*w						*bil {turn;round}					*wel- {to turn,roll}
 													> *he-bil-hi > ebili {to be in motion,go}		> *wel-t- > *wert- > Got. wairþan {to become,happen}, La. verto {to turn,exchange}, Pol. wrócić {to return,get/give back}
 													> *bil-bil > biribil {round,circular}						> OEn. wyrd {fate}, Grm. Wurst {sausage}, Pol. wrota {gate}
 	
 	*b						*m						*ben {thought,mind}					*men- {to think}
 													> *ben-du > mendu {character,inclination}		> Anc.Gr. μένος {mind,will,vigour}, Sans. मनस् mánas {mind,intellect,will,spirit,inclination}, Lat. mens {mind,intellect,reasoning}
 													> -men~-pen {ABS}					> -mn̥ {ACT;RES}
 													> gogamen {thought,idea}, mingapen {pronunciation},	> Lat. regimen {control,rule}, Anc.Gr. πράγμα {thing,deed}, Sans. कर्मन् karman {act,deed,occupation,object}
 													orhoipen~oroipen {memory}
 
 	*d						*d						*del(h) {long,along}					*delh₁- {to extend}
 													> *lan+*del-ge > landelge {large cultivated expanse} 	> *dlo-n~dlh₁-gʰos > Anc.Gr. δολιχός {long > protracted,wearisome}, Sans. दीर्घ dīrghá {long,high,deep}, Lat. longus {long,vast}
 													> *an-del-u > adelu {preparation,arrangement}
 													> *dekʰiso+*del > eskudel {handrail}
 													
 	*g(i)						*ǵ						*gen(h) {do,make,create}				*ǵenh₁- {to produce;beget}
 													> *genhV- {raise,nurture} > genhatu {look after,raise}	> Anc.Gr. γίγνομαι {to come into being;become}, Lat. gigno {to beget,produce,cause}
 													> *he-gin > egin {do,make}				> OIr. gníid {to do,make}, Sans. जनति jánati {to beget,create}
 													> *gin-s-a- > gizaki {human race}, gizon {person,man}	> Anc.Gr. γένος {offspring > family,race,people;gender}, Sans. जनस् jánas {race,people}
 	
 	*g						*g						*gal {request,call}					*gal- {to cry out}
 													> *gal-dehe > galde {request,appeal}			> Wel. galw {to call}, ON kalla {to call,shout}
 													
 	*g(u)						*gʷ						*gur {honour,esteem}					*gʷerH- {to approve}
 													> *ha-gur > (a)gur {greeting;greetings!}		> Sans. आगुर् agur {ritual exclamation}
 													> *gur-en > guren {favoured,great,noble}		> La. gratus {pleasing,welcome;thankful,grateful}, Sans. गूर्त gūrtá {agreeable,welcome}
 													> *gur-tʰu > gurtu {to worship,revere;bow}		> Sans. गृणाति gṛṇā́ti {to invoke,announce,praise,recite}
 	
 	*b...h						*bʰ						*behe-r {at the bottom}					*bʰer- {to bear}
 													> behar {need,obligation,duty}				> Anc.Gr. φέρω {to bring,carry,bear}, Sans. भरति bhárati {to bear,carry,support}, Lat. fero {to bear,carry,support,endure}
 													> *beher-en > barhen {foot}				> En. bier, Ger. Bahre {bier;litter,stretcher}
 													*behe {bottom;down,below}				?*-bʰ {downwards}
 													> *-be~-pe > begipe {eyelid}, lurpe {underground}	> *gʷeh₂-bʰ- {to press down,submerge}, *dʰew-bʰ- {deep} > Got. daupjan {to dip,immerse}, Lit. dubùs {deep,hollow}, *swer-bʰ- > ON. sverfa {to rub,polish > to file}
 	
 	*d...h						*dʰ						*dohor {doorway}					*dʰwor- {door}
 													> -dor {doorway,roof} > galdur {roof ridge}		> Anc. Gr. θύρα {door(s),entrance}, Sans. द्वार dvā́ra {door,passage,entrance}, Lat. forum {courtyard > marketplace,forum}
 													> loor- {doorway,roof} > lorpin {eaves}
 													> lorio {porch,verandah,entranceway,courtyard}
 													*duhur {that which is firm;earth,ground}		*dʰ(e)r- {to attach,fix;to hold firmly,support}
 													> luhur~luur~lur {land,ground}, lu(r)tar {human}	> ?*dʰe-ǵʰom > Anc. Gr. χθών {ground,earth}, Sans. *jẓhám > क्षम् kṣám {ground,earth}, *dʰǵʰm̥mṓn > Lat. homo {human}, Got. guma {man}
 																				> Sans. धरति dhárati {to hold,keep,hold down,fix in}, Lat. firmus {firm,established}
 	
 	*g(i)...h					*ǵʰ						*gihans {animal fat}					*ǵʰh₂éns- {goose}
 													> *gihan-s-ta > gazta {cheese}				> Anc. Gr. χήν {goose}, Sans. हंस haṃsá {goose}, OIr. géiss {swan}
 													*égi {beyond,out;too much}				*éǵʰ- {out}
 													> *égi-s > ez {NEG}, ez- {out,extra}			> *(h₁)éǵʰ-s > Anc.Gr. ἐκ/ξ {out of,from}, Lat. ex {out of,from}, Pol. z(e) {from,out of}, Anc. Gr. ἔσχατος {end,last}, ἐχθός~ἐκτός {outside,except}
 													> *ha+egi > hegi {edge,border}
 													> egi {excessive,too much}¸ -egi {EXCSS}

 	*g...h						*gʰ						*loho {lie down,sleep}					*l(o)gʰ- {to lie}
 													> loo {sleep,asleep}					> Anc.Gr. λέχομαι {to lie down}, OIr. laigid {to lie down,sleep}, Got. ligan {to lie down,rest}
 													> *lo(h)- > logose {desire to sleep},			> Got. lagjan {to lay,put}, Pol. łożyć {to lay out}
 													loak hartu {to fall asleep}, lohordi {nightmare}	> ON. lǫg {something laid down > law}, Anc.Gr. λόχος {ambush}, S-C. lȏg {(arc.) bed}, Pol. łoże {(four-poster) bed}
 																				> Anc.Gr. λέχος {bed}, Lat. lectus {bed,couch}, OIr. lige {lying down,setting;bed,kennel;grave}

	*g(u)...h					*gʷʰ						*guhar {flame,burn}					*gʷʰer- {to warm,heat}
													> gar~gaar~kar {flame,sunbeam},				> Anc.Gr. θερμός {warm,hot}, Sans. घर्म gharmá {heat,hot weather}, ON. varmr {warm}, 
													guhar~guar {^} > garro {tentacle}			V.Sans. हरस् háras {flame,fire}, Lat. furnus {oven,bakery}, Pol. garnek {cooking pot}
													> *guhar+do > gardu~hardu~kardu {to tinder,		> Anc.Gr. θέρω > θέρομαι {to make oneself warm,become warm}, OIr. guirid {to heat,warm},
													light (a fire,flame)}					Got. brinnan {to burn,be on fire}, Sans. घृणोति ghṛṇóti {to burn,shine}, S-C. gòreti {to burn,blaze}
													> inkatz {(char)coal}, sugar {fire},
													sukar {fever;fervour,passion}
	
	*m						*m						*mal {soft}						*mel- {soft}
													> malgu {soft,flexible}, malbu {weak}			> *mol-dus {soft,weak} > Lat. mollis {soft,flexible,tender}, Sans. मृदु mṛdú {soft,pliant,weak}
													> *mal+atu > ma/elatu {to ripen;soak}			> ?*(s)mel-d- > Anc.Gr. μέλδομαι {to melt}, ON. melta {to dissolve,melt > Ic. to digest},
																				ON smelta {to melt;smelt}
																				> ?*mel-i-d > Hitt. militt {honey}, Anc.Gr. μέλι {honey}, Got. miliþ {honey}
													*sama {some}						*sem- {one}
													> *sama-r > samar {some,something;a little}		> *sḗm > Anc.Gr. εἷς~μία {one}, Toch.A. sas {one}, OArm. մի mi {one > Arm. one,some,a certain}	
													> *sam-di-a > sandia {so and so}			> Anc.Gr. ἅμα {at the same time,together}, Got. sums {some,a certain}
													> *sa(m)- > sabel {belly}, sabil {saucer},		> *sm̥- > Anc.Gr. ἀδελφός {brother}, etc.? 
													sagar {apple}
	
	*(s)m?						*(s)m						see above
	
	*n						*n						*nes {evade,flee}					*nes- {to get away,escape > to return home}
													> *he-nes-i > iñesi~ihes(i) {evading,etc.;escape,flight}> Anc.Gr. νέομαι {to go,leave,go home}, Got. ganisan {to heal}, OE. nesan {to survive,escape from}
																				> Got. nasjan {to save,rescue}, ON nœra {to relieve,nourish}, Anc.Gr. ναίω {to dwell,settle}
																				
	*(s)n						*(s)n						*sne~sno {emanate fluid}				*sneh₂-~snew- {to flow;swim}
													> *ha-sne > esne {milk}, esnaldu {give milk}		> Anc.Gr. νάω {to flow (over)}, Sans. स्नौति snáuti {to flow,drip (milk)}
													> *su-sno > susno {emanation}				> Sans. स्नाति snā́ti {to bathe (ritually)}, Lat. no {to swim,float}, Anc.Gr. νέω {to swim,float}
													
	*s						*s						*sal {dwell}						*sel- {live,dwell}
													> *sal-har > aB salha {house,farmhouse}			> Got. *sala {hall,room}, OCS селó {courtyard,village}
													> saltei {stable,granary}, saroi {meadow,pasture}
													*nasa {sinus}						*neh₂s- {nose}
													> *har+nasa > arnasa {breath,breathing}			> ON nǫs {nose}, Sans. नासा nā́sā {nose}, Lit. nósis {nose}, Lat. nasus {nose}
													> nasa {pier,Bidasoan labyrinthine fishing system,	> Grm. Nüster {animal nostril}, S-C. nȍzdrva {nostril}, Lat. naris {nostril;opening,orifice}
													ravine,gulch}
	
	*r						*r						*hargi {light,bright}					*h₂erǵ- {to shine > white}
													> argi {light;bright}, argidiri {dawn},			> Hit. ḫarkiš {white,bright}, Anc.Gr. ἀργός {white,bright}, Sans. अर्जुन árjuna {white,bright;silver} 											
													artizar {morning star}					> Anc.Gr. ἄργυρος {silver;money}, OIr. argat {silver;money}, Lat. argentum {silver;any silver thing}
													> il(h)argi {moonlight}, Z larhargi {clear-skinned},
													lerrargi {resin}, minargi {eye-fluke}
	
	*l						*l						*las~los {collect,draw (water)}				*les- {to gather}
													> lats {large/main stream,brook}, laso,			> Lit. lèsti {to peck at,pick up by pecking}, Got. lisan {to gather,collect}, Grm. lesen {to gather,harvest;read}
													laster {current;fast;soon}
													> *lats-o > lasto {drinking straw}
													> laskume {small trench}, losko {small pond;marsh,
													swamp}
	
	*i~∅						*y						*ikʰur {gland}						*Hyekʷ-r {liver}
													> as-~haz-ikuren {glands,mumps;goiter}			> Anc.Gr. ἧπαρ {liver}, Sans. यकृत् yákṛt {liver}, Latv. aknas {liver}, Lat. iecur {liver}
													> hazigurentxo {glands,lymph nodes}
Further consonant clusters:
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	*sur						*sr						*suro {pour,spill}					*sr-e-w- {to flow,pour}
													> *he-suro > aB esuro {to spill,pour}			> Sans. स्रवति srávati {to flow,leak;perish}, Anc.Gr. ῥέω {to flow,run,leak} 
													(replaced by *he-sur-i > isuri)
													> ixurika {in torrents}

	*?						*tw						N/A							N/A
	
	*b						*dw						*bi {2}							*dwi- {2;compositional}
													> bi {2}, biga {2}, bigarren {second}			> *dwóh₁ {2} > Anc.Gr. δύο {2}, Sans. द्व dvá {2} > Guj. બે be {2}, OArm. երկու erku {2} 
													> hamabi {twelve}, biri(ka) {lung},			> Anc.Gr. δίγλωσσος {bilingual}, Lat. bipes {bipedal}, Sanskrit द्वितीय dvitī́ya {second;fellow,companion}
													bihotz {heart}
	
	*doho						*dʰw						*dohor {doorway}					*dʰwor- {door}
													see above for more detail
	
	*kʰo						*ḱw 						*kʰon-s {hollow}					*ḱweH~ḱewH- {to swell}
													> ontzi {boat}, hontz {owl}, hontz~huntz {ivy}		> Sans. श्वयति śváyati {to swell,grow,increase}, Anc.Gr. κυέω {to be/become pregnant}
													> -kuntz-e > oinkuntze {footprint}
	
	*go?						*ǵw						N/A							N/A
	
	*goho?						*ǵʰw 						N/A							N/A
	
	*su						*(s)w						*su(r) {fire}						*sw-eid/el- {to sweat;to shine;to burn}
													> su {fire}, surtu {to catch fire},			> Sans. स्वेदते svédate {to sweat,be anointed}, Lat. sudor {sweat,moisture}
													asun {stinging nettle}					> Lit. svidėti (rare) {to shine}
																				> OArm. քաղց kʿałcʿ {hunger;hungry}, ON. svelta {to starve,have hunger}
	
	*tʰ						*tt						*atʰa {father}						*atta {father}
													see above for more detail
													
	*pʰVtʰ?						*pt						N/A							N/A
	
	*kʰVtʰ?						*{ḱ,k,kʷ}t					N/A							N/A
	
	*pʰVs?						*ps						N/A							N/A
	
	*kʰis						*ḱs						*dekʰiso {right hand}					*deḱs- {right}
													see above for more detail
													
	*kʰVs?						*{k,kʷ}s					N/A							N/A
	
	*tʰ?						*sd(ʰ)						*matʰ-o {big stick}					*masd-o- {pole,mast}
													> mato {big stick,spike,club}				> Lat. ?malus {mast,standard}, S-C. mȏst {bridge}, ON. mastr {mast}
Vowels and laryngeals:
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	PB						PIE						Basque							IE
	*e,*a						*e						*pʰel {warm} 						*pelh₁- {to warm up}
													*kʰar {hard}						*ker- {hard}
													see above for more detail
														
	*he						*h₁(e)						*heia  {go}						*h₁ey- {to go}
													> heia~ea {hey!,let's go!,well!}			> ?*h₁ey {hey!,go!,well!}
													> *hi-heia-n > jo(h)an {to go}				> Anc.Gr. εἶμι {to come,go}, Sans. एति éti {to go,walk}

	*ha						*h₂(e)						*har {take}						*h₂er- [to take,acquire}
													> hartu {to take,receive}				> OArm. առնում aṙnum {to receive,take}, Anc.Gr. ἄρνυμαι {to get,win,receive,bear}
													> hareman {receive and give;give and take}
													*stʰa(ha) {to be,exist,stand,stay}			*steh₂- {to stand}
													see above for more detail
	
	*ho						*h₃(e)						*hor~har {move}						*h₃er- {to put in motion > to rise}
													> *hor-s > hortz {sky,heavens}				> Anc.Gr. ὄρος {something raised > mountain,hill}
													> *hor-an-tu > orronatu {to rock,			> Sans. इयर्ति jíharti {to go,move,shake,raise}, Anc.Gr. ὄρνυμι {to set upon,awaken,raise}
													move from side to side}
													> *har-an-ho > arrano {eagle}				> *h₃érō(n) > Hit. ḫāraš {eagle}, Anc.Gr. ὄρνις {bird,chicken}, Got. ara {eagle}
	
	*a						*eh₁						*saha-r {enter,go in;string together,connect}		*seh₁(-r)- {to insert > to sow; to string together,connect} 												
													> *sahar-tu > sartu {to enter,go in;insert}		> Lat. sero {to sow,plant;beget;found,establish}, Got. saian {to sow}, Latv. sēt {to sow}
													> *sahar-(a)tu > saratu {to weed}			> Lat. sero {to join together,plait,interweave}, Anc.Gr. εἴρω {to join together,insert}
													> sarde {pitchfork}, sare {net,trap}
	
	*a						*eh₂						*da(-i)(-l) {division,part}				*deh₂(-y)(-l)- {to divide,share}
													> *he-da-tu > eratu {to form,organise}			> Anc.Gr. δαίομαι {to divide}, Lat. dolo {to cut,hew,shape}
													> ida~ira {fern}, adalko {cluster,bunch},		> OIr. dál {part,share}, ON. tími,tíð {(interval of)time,hour}											
													eraldu {to form,shape}
	
	*o						*eh₃						*ios {join,unite;sew}					*yeh₃s- {to gird} ~ ?*yews- {to bind}
													> *ios+i > josi {join,unite;sew,nail}			> Anc.Gr. ζωστήρ {warrior's belt > girdle}, Latv. josta {belt;waist,loins}
													*gin~*go {knowledge,know;intellect}			*ǵneh₃- {to know}
													> jakin,-gin- {to know}					> Sans. जानाति jānā́ti {to know, understand}, Anc.Gr. γιγνώσκω {to know,learn,discern}, Lat. (g)nosco {to know,recognise}
													> *eda-gin > jagin {known;knowledge}			> Sans. ज्ञात jñātá {known,recognisable}, Anc.Gr. γνῶσις {knowledge}
													> *go-mon-ta > gomu(n)ta {memory,thought},		> Anc.Gr. γνώμων {one that knows,discerns > interpreter,carpenter's square,index,tariff},
													gomutadu {to remember}					γνώμη {mind,reason,will}
													> gogo {thought,mind,will}, gogamen {thought}
													
	*i						*i(H)						*bi {2}							*dwi- {2;compositional}
													see above for more detail
													*sil {silent;silence}					*seyl- {still,quiet}
													> *he-sil > isil {silence;silent}			> Lat. sileo {to be silent,quiet}, Got. anasilan {to cease,become silent}
													> isildu {be quiet}					> OE. salnes {silence}
													*pʰotʰo-ni {powerful person (VOC)}			*potnih₂ {lady,mistress}
													> othoi {please!,I beg you!;pleading,supplication}	> Anc.Gr. ποτνία {lady,mistress}, Sans. पत्नी pátnī {wife,mistress}, Lit. pati {wife}
	
	*ei						*ey						*heia  {go}						*h₁ey- {to go}
													see above for more detail
	
	*oi 						*oy						*kʰoi~kʰei {resting spot;bed,sleeping place}		*(t)ḱey- {to lie,settle} > *ḱoy-
													> ohe~ohi~hoe {bed}, oheratu {go to bed},		> Sans. क्षेति kṣéti {to abide,remain,move}, Anc.Gr. κτίζω {to people,found}, κεῖμαι {to lie (asleep,etc.)},
													ohatu {bed-ridden,paralysed}, oihal {sheet}		Lat. civis {settled citizen} > civitas {community;city}; Got. haims {village}
													> hei~ehi~ei {animals' sleeping place}, iraurkei	> Anc.Gr. κοιμάω {to put to sleep}, Lat. cunae {cradle,nest}							
													{plant matter bedding}, orkei~orkoi {shoemaker's last}
	
	*o,*u						*u						*hoki {habitual,normal}					*h₁ewk- {to get accustomed to, learn}
													> hoki {normal state/dispostition/mood}			> Sans. उच्यति úcyati {to be accustomed to,take delight in}, Lit. jùnkti {to get used to,grow weaned from}, OArm. ուսանիմ usanim {to learn,study}
													*mugi {move}						*mew(H)- {to move}
													> mugitu {to move,put into action}			> Sans. मीवति mī́vati {to move}, Lat. moveo {to move,put,offer}
	
	*u						*u(H)						*mus {twitch,flex}					*muh₂-s {mouse}
													> muzker {lizard}, musar {marmot},			> Anc.Gr. μῦς {mouse,mussel,muscle}, Sans. मूष् mū́ṣ {mouse;thief}
													mu(s)tur {snout,lips,nose}				?> Lat. musca {fly}, Anc.Gr. μυῖα {fly}, ON. mý {midge,gnat}
													> musu- {whiskers} > mus(k)arratu {to shear, clip}
	
	*eu						*ew						*eusi {hold,grab;maintain}				*(h₂)yew- {pull towards,maintain,connect > law}
													> eutsi {to hold,take;maintain,uphold}			>  Sans. योस् yós {welfare,health}, Lat. ius {law,duty}, iuro {to swear on oath,vow}
													> beutse {got it! (INTJ;used by fishermen)},
													euskarri {support,anything that supports/holds up}
													
	*?						*ow						N/A							N/A
	
	*(u)m,n?					*m̥						N/A							N/A
	
	*(u)n						*n̥						*-ndar/ndur {under > at the bottom}			*n̥dʰér {under > low}
													> *ha-ndar > hondar {residue,remains},			> Sans. अधर ádhara {low,inferior,vile}, Lat. inferus {low,underworld spirit}, imus {last,lowest}
													hondar {last,ultimate}					> Lat. infra {below}, Got. undar {under,below}
													> handur {vile,low,base}
	
	*(u)l						*l̥						N/A							N/A
	
	*(u)r						*r̥						*suro {pour,spill}					*srew- {to flow,pour}
													see above for more detail
Some Leipzig-Jakarta comparisons:
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	English			Basque			PB			Sanskrit			Ancient Greek			Latin			Old Irish		Lithuanian			Hittite				PIE
	fire			su			*su(r)			अग्नि agni			πῦρ pū̂r			ignis			teine			ugnis				paḫḫur				*h₁n̥gʷnís,*péh₂wr̥
	nose			sudur			*?mus+dur		नासा nā́sā			ῥίς rhī́s			nasus			srón			nosis				?				*néh₂s
	to go			joan			*heia			एति éti				εἶμι eîmi			eo			téit			eiti				iyatta				*h₁ey-
	water			(h)ur			*hur			अप् áp				ὕδωρ húdōr			aqua			uisce			vanduõ				wātar				*wódr̥
	mouth			aho			*ha-ho			आस् ā́s				στόμα stóma			os			á			burna				aiš				*h₁óh₃s
	tongue			mihi			*bin-i			जिह्वा jihvā́			γλῶσσα glō̂ssa			lingua			tengae			liežuvis			lālaš				*dn̥ǵʰwéh₂s
	blood			odol			*sar(h)			असृज् ásṛj			αἷμα haîma			sanguis			fuil			kraũjas				ēšḫar				*h₁ésh₂r̥
	bone			hezur			*hastʰur		अस्थि ásthi			ὀστέον ostéon			os			cnáim			kaulas				ḫaštāi				*h₃ésth₁~h₂ésth₁
	2SG			hi			*tʰi			त्वम् tvám			σύ sú				tu			tú			tu				zīk				*túh₂~tí
	root			sustrai			*stʰan			मूल mū́la				ῥίζα rhíza			radix			frém			šaknis 				šurkaš				*wréh₂ds
	come			etorri			*tʰor			आगच्छति āgacchati		ἔρχομαι érkʰomai		venio			do·icc			ateiti				u̯ezi				*h₁ey-,*gʷem-
	breast			bular/titi		*?ud-gar-s		स्तन stána			μαστός mastós			mamma			ucht			krūtis				tētan				**peh₂g- > *pstḗn,*peg-t-
	rain			euri			*he-hur-i		वृष्टि vṛṣṭí			ὑετός huetós			pluvia			bráen			lietus				ḫēus				*h₂wer-s-
	1SG			ni			*ekʰ-,*enne		अहम् ahám,म- ma-		ἔγω égō,(ἐ)με (e)me		ego,me			mé			aš,man-				ūk,amm-				*(h₁)éǵ,*(h₁)me-
	name			izen			*hi-stʰen		नामन् nā́man			ὄνομα ónoma			nomen			ainmm			var̃das				lāman				*(h₁)nómn̥
	louse			zorri			*hi-spʰor-hi		यूका yūkā			φθείρ pʰtʰeír			pedis			míl			utėlė				?				*lewH-,?
	wing			hego			*pʰega/o		पक्ष pakṣá			πτερόν pterón			ala			ette			sparnas				páttar				**peh₂g- > **pég-t-h₂-r̥ > *péth₂r̥
	flesh			haragi,mami		*mami,*gi(h)		मांस māṃsá			κρέας kréas,σάρξ sárx		caro			feoil			mėsa,kūnas			?				**me-mh₂-s-s > *mḗms;*ker-
	hand/arm		esku,beso		*dekʰi-so,*b/meso	हस्त hásta,बाहु bāhú		χείρ kʰeír,βραχίων brakʰī́ōn	manus,bracchium		lám			ranka				keššar,išḫunauš			*ǵʰésr̥
	fly			euli			?			मक्षिका mákṣikā			μυῖα muîa			musca			cuil			mùsė				?				*mew-
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Re: IE and Basque: Blevins' proposal

Post by chris_notts »

I learned Basque many years ago, although I'm pretty rusty now, so when I heard of Blevins' work I was quite interested. Unfortunately I don't really have the deep background in either IE or Basque historical linguistics to properly evaluate it.

That being said, I do have a copy of "The History of Basque" by Trask. And some of the things above match what I took away from that book, e.g. the possibility of the large number of vowel initial words coming from aspiration then loss of word initial fortis consonants. Given the quite marked distribution of phonemes in pure Basque morphemes, consonant loss seemed to me like the most likely explanation even though Trask was very hesitant to fully endorse it. The aspirated / non-aspirated vs fortis / lenis terminology is just that, since no-one really knows how these consonants were actually pronounced.
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Re: IE and Basque: Blevins' proposal

Post by Zju »

I remain skeptical, but I must admit this proposal is orders of magnitude better than the one we saw a couple of years ago. There's yet to be any genetic proposal that gives any explanation to the second person only gender apart from some Afro-Asiatic hypothesis.
/j/ <j>

Ɂaləɂahina asəkipaɂə ileku omkiroro salka.
Loɂ ɂerleku asəɂulŋusikraɂə seləɂahina əɂətlahɂun əiŋɂiɂŋa.
Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ.
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Re: IE and Basque: Blevins' proposal

Post by chris_notts »

Zju wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:38 am I remain skeptical, but I must admit this proposal is orders of magnitude better than the one we saw a couple of years ago. There's yet to be any genetic proposal that gives any explanation to the second person only gender apart from some Afro-Asiatic hypothesis.
Does it necessarily need to be explained for the hypothesis to work? Of course a hypothesis that explains most distinctive features of a language is good, but not everything has to come from an ultimate reconstructable proto-language. Sometimes things just happen along the way. This might have happened in PIE in fact for third person gender, since a lot of people think that the masculine vs feminine developed after Hittite and co. split off.

More interesting to me would be how the same parent language produced the inflectional morphology of PIE and Basque. The ergative agreement, especially with agreement prefixes for the absolutive argument, doesn't look that much like PIE, and it's clearly ancient from the inflectional complexities of the finite verbs.
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Re: IE and Basque: Blevins' proposal

Post by WeepingElf »

As I haven't read the book, I cannot say much. However, I am deeply skeptical, as I usually am with such bold proposals. The OP mentions that it doesn't discuss morphology, and IMHO it is morphology where it shows best whether two languages are related or not. And Basque and IE morphology are worlds apart (though that Basque is ergative and IE is not does not prove that they are unrelated - such things may change, and there is some - controversial - evidence of change in this regard in PIE). The usual caveats against chance similarities apply with this kind of purely lexicon-based comparisons.
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Re: IE and Basque: Blevins' proposal

Post by Pabappa »

I dont have the book either, but from the brief synopsis it looks like she's adding consonants to the vowel-initial words to make them line up better with PIE. I'd be more apt to believe in it if there were at least some examples of internal correspondence. e.g. if there was a word in Basque that showed that /hirur/ "three" once began with a /t/, the choice of /tʰ/ for the missing consonant would not seem so arbitrary.
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Re: IE and Basque: Blevins' proposal

Post by chris_notts »

Pabappa wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:52 am I dont have the book either, but from the brief synopsis it looks like she's adding consonants to the vowel-initial words to make them line up better with PIE. I'd be more apt to believe in it if there were at least some examples of internal correspondence. e.g. if there was a word in Basque that showed that /hirur/ "three" once began with a /t/, the choice of /tʰ/ for the missing consonant would not seem so arbitrary.
There are a few vowel initial nouns that gain initial plosives when compounded, and also demonstratives that in one dialect start with k- but begin with h- or 0- in all the other dialects. But there's very few of them, so I doubt they're the basis for her correspondences.
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Re: IE and Basque: Blevins' proposal

Post by Whimemsz »

I don't know much of anything about historical IE or Basque linguistics, but these brief examples of two of Blevins' proposed cognate sets (from dhok's blog) don't give me much confidence in Blevins' work or its conclusions.
Last edited by Whimemsz on Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: IE and Basque: Blevins' proposal

Post by Znex »

Pabappa wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:52 am I dont have the book either, but from the brief synopsis it looks like she's adding consonants to the vowel-initial words to make them line up better with PIE. I'd be more apt to believe in it if there were at least some examples of internal correspondence. e.g. if there was a word in Basque that showed that /hirur/ "three" once began with a /t/, the choice of /tʰ/ for the missing consonant would not seem so arbitrary.
The initial aspirated stops are generally reasoned out actually in the book: here she compares hirur (the final vowel -i is extrapolated from the form hirikoe {triglyph}) with the expressive word txiri {tie,link}, as in txirikorda {braid}.
Whimemsz wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:40 pm I don't know much of anything about historical IE or Basque linguistics, but these brief examples of two of Blevins' proposed cognate sets (from dhok's blog) don't give me much confidence in Blevins' work or its conclusions.
The τιμή cognate is not in the final book, otherwise I would have caught that. But I must admit while gathering examples for the sound correspondences, there are quite a few obscure PIE roots she selected, which have little IE spread. You can probably tell just by looking at some of the entries and seeing how quite a few are predisposed to Western IE/Balto-Slavic and Germanic in particular.
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Re: IE and Basque: Blevins' proposal

Post by Howl »

I have not read the book yet. I do want to. But somehow I always find more interesting works to spend my historical linguistics hobby budget on. One of the things that caught my eye is the sound change #sC -> z (IIRC) which is very similar to the sound change #sC -> ś that I see from Indo-Uralic to Uralic. She has obviously spent years on this work. And it would take me years to get my own Indo-Uralic proposals up to that level.

The Basque morphology does not look very PIE-like to me. But it reminds me more of Kartvelian. And I do think that Kartvelian is related to PIE at some level. So I do see her proposal as something that is possible (which Forni's proposal definitely was not). In any case, lexical reconstruction and comparison are a good place to start. You do need morphology to prove a relationship. But without any sound correspondences which are established by lexical comparison, comparing similarly sounding morphemes is useless.
But I must admit while gathering examples for the sound correspondences, there are quite a few obscure PIE roots she selected, which have little IE spread. You can probably tell just by looking at some of the entries and seeing how quite a few are predisposed to Western IE/Balto-Slavic and Germanic in particular.
I do get a lot of those in Indo-Uralic as well. For example the IE side of PIE *h₂ekʷeh₂ '(body of) water, river' ~ PU *juka 'minor river, waterfall'/*jïki 'river' is basically a Germanic/Italic isogloss (unless you take Sanskrit udaká 'water' (neuter!) as a compound of ud-aka < *wed + *h₂ekʷeh₂)

However from Znex's list:
  • * *PB *pʰel {warm} ~ PIE *pelh₁- {to warm up}
That one is only attested in Slovenian, and may be better etymologized as *pel 'to burn' which is only attested in Slavic. This Slavic verb *paliti may be a borrowing from West-Uralic *pala 'to burn' which according to one etymology comes from Uralic *pala 'to gobble up' which at an IU level could be compared to IE *pleh₁ 'to fill'.
  • * PB *kʰar {hard} ~ PIE *ker- {hard}
I wonder what "PIE *ker-" is based on. Germanic hard is usually etymologized as a schwebeablaut variant of Greek kratús 'strong, powerful', Sanskrit krátu 'power'. If it is based on that, I miss a -t at the end.
  • * PB *behe-r {at the bottom} ~ PIE *bʰer- {to bear}
Does Blevins have any explanation for the semantical mismatch here?
  • * PB *saha-r {enter,go in;string together,connect} ~ PIE *seh₁(-r)- {to insert > to sow; to string together,connect} : Latin sero,...
The PIE roots *seh1 'to sow' and *ser 'to bind, to tie, to thread' are usually taken as two different roots with very different semantics. They happen to fall together in Latin serō < PIE *sish₁oh₂ 'I sow' with Latin rhotacism and PIE *seroh₂ 'I bind'. I am very curious why Blevins chose to etymologize this as one root. Especially as it concerns some Indo-Uralic etymologies of mine (PU *sïni 'vein, sinew' ~ PIE *(s)neh₁ 'to thread, to sew', PIE *(s)neh₁wr 'nerve, sinew, tendon' and PU *säri 'fibre, vein, root' ~ PIE *ser 'to thread, to tie, to bind').
  • PB *su(r) {fire} ~ PIE *sw-eid/el- {to sweat;to shine;to burn}
Again, two different roots etymologized as one. PIE *sweid means 'to sweat'. PIE *swel means 'to smoulder, to burn'. I get why Blevins is doing this here, as she only needs the 'sw' part of the word.
though that Basque is ergative and IE is not does not prove that they are unrelated - such things may change, and there is some - controversial - evidence of change in this regard in PIE
The situation is the same for Uralic (see 'Proto-Uralic ergativity reconsidered' by Merlijn de Smit). I think that the Indo-Uralic predecessor of PIE was ergative. But this is not a mainstream theory.
the nature of any morphological comparison for the Indo-Uralic proposal for instance is limited by the size of the morphemes involved, the relative sizes of the compared phonologies, and hence by random chance.
I am not worried about that aspect at all. The most difficult part of Indo-Uralic is figuring out how the vowels correspond.
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Re: IE and Basque: Blevins' proposal

Post by Znex »

chris_notts wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:51 amMore interesting to me would be how the same parent language produced the inflectional morphology of PIE and Basque. The ergative agreement, especially with agreement prefixes for the absolutive argument, doesn't look that much like PIE, and it's clearly ancient from the inflectional complexities of the finite verbs.
WeepingElf wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:34 amAnd Basque and IE morphology are worlds apart (though that Basque is ergative and IE is not does not prove that they are unrelated - such things may change, and there is some - controversial - evidence of change in this regard in PIE)
Howl wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:15 amThe Basque morphology does not look very PIE-like to me.
Not that I have Blevins to refer to on this one, but some brief skimming of what other authors have written about Proto-Basque seems to suggest that elements of Basque agglutination are relatively recent (see Ariztimuño 2013, pp.394-397 particularly; Santazilia 2013). The stark difference between Modern Basque grammar and PIE grammar seems hardly indicative by itself of a non-relationship without looking in depth at what makes up the Basque grammar.
Howl wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:15 amHowever from Znex's list:
I haven't looked at her PIE sources yet, so this is a good chance for me to look through them more thoroughly.
Howl wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:15 am
  • * *PB *pʰel {warm} ~ PIE *pelh₁- {to warm up}
That one is only attested in Slovenian, and may be better etymologized as *pel 'to burn' which is only attested in Slavic. This Slavic verb *paliti may be a borrowing from West-Uralic *pala 'to burn' which according to one etymology comes from Uralic *pala 'to gobble up' which at an IU level could be compared to IE *pleh₁ 'to fill'.
Blevins refers to the LIV3 (Lexikon der indogermanischen Verben 2014) here; I only refer to the LIV2 (2001) which indeed has *pel- (p.469), with no older attestations other than in Old Church Slavonic (полѣти polěti {to blaze,flame;glow}, палити paliti {to burn}, выс-планѫти vыs-planǫti {to flare up}). The LIV2 marks it there as questionably PIE, but I cannot say if the authors changed their mind between editions.
Howl wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:15 am
  • * PB *kʰar {hard} ~ PIE *ker- {hard}
I wonder what "PIE *ker-" is based on. Germanic hard is usually etymologized as a schwebeablaut variant of Greek kratús 'strong, powerful', Sanskrit krátu 'power'. If it is based on that, I miss a -t at the end.
Blevins does provide some other examples she supposes are derived from *ker- that I missed: eg. Sans. कर्कर karkara {hard;bone,stone}, OIr. carrac {stone}, OArm. քար k'ar {stone}. But Blevins here only refers to the American Heritage Dictionary of Indo-European Roots (Watkins 2011) in the appendix, which she notes earlier in her book has simplified reconstructions (though based off the same primary data). *kar-/*ker- (p.38; see the online appendix) is cited as having affixed forms *kor-tu > eg. Got. hardus, and *kr̥t-es‑ > eg. Anc.Gr. κρατύς.
Howl wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:15 am
  • * PB *behe-r {at the bottom} ~ PIE *bʰer- {to bear}
Does Blevins have any explanation for the semantical mismatch here?
She argues that PB has an intransitive meaning {*to be below > that which is at the bottom}, while PIE has a transitive meaning {*to be below > to hold from below > to bear}. Hence Blevins supposes PB *behe {bottom,below} corresponds to a possible PIE *-bʰ- {down,downwards}.
Howl wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:15 am
  • * PB *saha-r {enter,go in;string together,connect} ~ PIE *seh₁(-r)- {to insert > to sow; to string together,connect} : Latin sero,...
The PIE roots *seh1 'to sow' and *ser 'to bind, to tie, to thread' are usually taken as two different roots with very different semantics. They happen to fall together in Latin serō < PIE *sish₁oh₂ 'I sow' with Latin rhotacism and PIE *seroh₂ 'I bind'. I am very curious why Blevins chose to etymologize this as one root. Especially as it concerns some Indo-Uralic etymologies of mine (PU *sïni 'vein, sinew' ~ PIE *(s)neh₁ 'to thread, to sew', PIE *(s)neh₁wr 'nerve, sinew, tendon' and PU *säri 'fibre, vein, root' ~ PIE *ser 'to thread, to tie, to bind').
Blevins refers to Kloekhorst's (2008) Etymological Dictionary of the Hittite Inherited Lexicon, where he identifies a single Hittite root šārr-/šarr- {to divide up,split;to cross a threshold,pass through (a doorway)} (pp.839-841), which I suspect was one big motivator for the cognate pairing PB *saha-r and *seh₁(r)- in the first place (the *-r suffix is recognised by Blevins as a PB-era productive nominaliser suffix). Kloekhorst only links the root to *seh₁r- however.
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Re: IE and Basque: Blevins' proposal

Post by chris_notts »

Znex wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:02 pm Not that I have Blevins to refer to on this one, but some brief skimming of what other authors have written about Proto-Basque seems to suggest that elements of Basque agglutination are relatively recent (see Ariztimuño 2013, pp.394-397 particularly; Santazilia 2013). The stark difference between Modern Basque grammar and PIE grammar seems hardly indicative by itself of a non-relationship without looking in depth at what makes up the Basque grammar.
I looked at Ariztimuño and it looked like the kind of nonsense people used to produce before morphological ergativity was widely understood. It produces hypotheses like passive takeover for why Basque agreement is ergative with no obvious evidence cited, just an undertone that ergative agreement is a problem to be explained. It's not obvious why it's more of a problem though than the accusative alignment of most IE languages

He claims that Trask favoured a passive analysis, but I can't find any argument for this in "The History of Basque". In that book, Trask argues that the 3rd person absolutive prefixes, which vary by tense and mood, may be ancient TAM markers which were lost after overt non-3rd person absolutive agreeement, that "3rd person plural" affixes are actually generic pluralisers, and that in fact the 3rd person agreement marker may originally have been zero for both absolutive and ergative arguments.
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Re: IE and Basque: Blevins' proposal

Post by Znex »

chris_notts wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:26 pm I looked at Ariztimuño and it looked like the kind of nonsense people used to produce before morphological ergativity was widely understood. It produces hypotheses like passive takeover for why Basque agreement is ergative with no obvious evidence cited, just an undertone that ergative agreement is a problem to be explained. It's not obvious why it's more of a problem though than the accusative alignment of most IE languages
A number of historically nominative-accusative languages families do show traceable changes towards ergativity in individual members, including Kurdish and Hindi-Urdu in IE, and Neo-Aramaic in Semitic (seemingly via influence from Kurdish and other ergative IE languages). On the other hand, you also see change from ergative-absolutive languages to nominative-accusative in individual members, for example (Standard) Fijian in Fijian-Polynesian (compare Fijian and Tongan). Whether these are motivated by re-interpretation of passive constructions in particular however is to be debated, but that's some basis for looking at ergativity in any one language from a diachronic lens.

On a completely different note, I was looking at Basque ergativity and saw that it does seem to switch to nominative-accusative alignment for past-tense inflecting verbs, where the agent is 1st/2nd person and the object is 3rd person, which coincidentally is almost the opposite to how ergativity appears in some IE languages:

Code: Select all

Basque
	d-i-da-zu-∅
    	3SG-have_for-1SG.DAT-2SG{POL}-PRS
    	"You have it for me."

	zen-i-da-∅-(e)n
	2SG{POL}-have_for-1SG.DAT-3SG-PST
	"You had it for me."
	
Hindi-Urdu
	लड़का किताब ख़रीदता है
	laṛk-ā kitāb xarīd-t-ā hai
	boy-MSG.NOM book.FSG buy-IF-MSG be.PRES.3SG
	"The boy buys a book."
	
	लड़के ने किताब ख़रीदी
	laṛk-e-ne kitāb xarīd-ī
	boy.MSG-OBL-ERG book.FSG buy-PF.FSG
	"The boy bought a book."
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Re: IE and Basque: Blevins' proposal

Post by ProtoBasque »

chris_notts wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:26 pm I looked at Ariztimuño and it looked like the kind of nonsense people used to produce before morphological ergativity was widely understood. It produces hypotheses like passive takeover for why Basque agreement is ergative with no obvious evidence cited, just an undertone that ergative agreement is a problem to be explained. It's not obvious why it's more of a problem though than the accusative alignment of most IE languages

He claims that Trask favoured a passive analysis, but I can't find any argument for this in "The History of Basque". In that book, Trask argues that the 3rd person absolutive prefixes, which vary by tense and mood, may be ancient TAM markers which were lost after overt non-3rd person absolutive agreeement, that "3rd person plural" affixes are actually generic pluralisers, and that in fact the 3rd person agreement marker may originally have been zero for both absolutive and ergative arguments.
So kind of you. Have you read those pages?

1- In this section I mention previous proposals on the subjtect.

2- You can't find any argument for this in "The History of Basque" because the paper I refer to is 20 years earlier than that.

By the way, three days ago I presented a co-authored preliminary (negative) review of Blevin's hypothesis in this workshop: http://www.fontes50.es/en/workshop-9-th ... ealised-it

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Re: IE and Basque: Blevins' proposal

Post by Howl »

ProtoBasque wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:05 pm By the way, three days ago I presented a co-authored preliminary (negative) review of Blevin's hypothesis in this workshop: http://www.fontes50.es/en/workshop-9-th ... ealised-it
The URL has a summary in Euskara. It is hardly possible for us to assess and discuss unpublished reviews in Euskara. What I would be really interested in is this: Why do you think Blevin's proposal is wrong? What are the problems with it? It would be great if you could make some of that available in English.
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Re: IE and Basque: Blevins' proposal

Post by ProtoBasque »

We are working on an English version. The main problem that we have detected so far for the "Basque part" lies in (the misuse of) the sources: many neologisms, loanwords, erroneous analysis of transparent formations, etc.

For now, some words mentioned here:

landelge < landa-elge (not *lan-delge)

hirikoe < hir(u)- 'three' + ikoe 'groove, line'
A neologism attested first and only in a dictionary from 1745; ikoe itself also attested first and only in that dictionary

*khei
It is a suffixed (and probably dialectal) variant of gai, gei 'matter' (not 'animal sleeping place')
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Re: IE and Basque: Blevins' proposal

Post by ProtoBasque »

I leave this link here so you can draw your own conclusions:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ko7r2 ... pS9Mq8feYs
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Re: IE and Basque: Blevins' proposal

Post by Howl »

Thanks for the presentation!

It does miss a lot of context for someone like me who is not initiated into Basque linguistics.
But looking at the 7. “Semantic lumping”:

Category 1, Possible

*baso 'wild, uncultivated' *bʰos-o- 'naked'
The adjective *bʰosos is only attested in Germanic ('bare'), Balto-Slavic ('barefooted, unshod' ) and Armenian ('barefooted').

Category 2, Possible derivation with some morphology. But where is that derivational morphology?

*bel(h) ‘grass, leaf’ *bhel3 'to thrive, bloom’ -
The word grass itself is a derivative of PIE *greh₁ 'to grow'.

*gel ‘still, immobile’ *g(ˊ)el ‘freeze, be cold’
The meaning 'still, immobile' can be derived from 'frozen'.

*behe-r 'at the bottom; lowered; subjugated; in need’ *bʰer- 'to bear, carry, bring'
It is far-fetched, but it can be derived from the meaning 'bearing, carrying' .

*behi 'beast of burden, draft animal' *weǵh - 'to drive, transport'
A possible agent noun ('transporter').

Category 3, Unlikely

*begi ‘eye, to eye’ *weǵ - ‘lively, cheerful, vigorous’
That one is definitely a miss.

And the biggest problem here seems to be that Blevins uses a lot of derivation, but there does not seem to be any morphology to back that up. For example, I could compare PIE *sweh₂d 'to be sweet/tasty' to Proto-Uralic *sewi 'to eat'. But that only works if the PIE word is some kind of derivative, like a causative ('to make someone eat'). And then there must be some morphology to back that up. (like the *-d in the PIE root which might be compared to Proto-Uralic -tA 'causative suffix').
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