Zompist Bboard Again

Is it more realistic to turn payt͡se > pat͡ʃːe or peːtse instead? Sorry, that was a typo: I meant pajt͡se > pajːe. Also, never in my mind this change is good: hat.su > hat.tu. It's more likely to turn into this instead hat.su > ha.t͡su or hat.t͡su. This language doesn't distinguish /hat.su/ and /ha...

consonants next to each other turn into geminates (e.g. inkɨ > inːɨ) Please explain this. This is not extensive enough. I'm not sure what you mean by this. If anything, this seems too extensive - it applies to all consonants next to each other! I mean your description is not extensive enough. What ...

Thanks everyone! I still have a few questions though: w > v / V_C or V_# I bit suspect this is not that realistic. For example, phoneme like /iwk/ can turn in /ivk/ which is harder to pronounce. Probably it's better if w>f From the other posts there seems to be a bit of disagreement about this. Pers...

Inspired by Zju's comment from the Sound Change Quickie Thread : I want you to poke holes at this: p t k s ʃ r l m n a o u e i k > q / _{a, o}, {a, o}_ p t k q s ʃ r l m n > pʲ tʲ kʲ qʲ ɕ ɕ j j mʲ nʲ / _i ɕ > sʲ i > e / [+J]_ l > w qʲ > cˠ > tˠ t > ɾ / V_V s n t > sˠ nˠ tˠ w ʃ > wˠ ʃˠ > ʕ ħ r q > z ...

Possibly there could be another thread for this, if enough people are interested? I'm interested. This seems like a pretty common desire, so a dedicated thread may not be a bad idea. Alright then - I'll make it now. EDIT: Now created at http://www.verduria.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=327 .

Zju wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:45 am I want you to poke holes at this:

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It occurs to me that I have much the same question with a set of sound changes I recently developed. Possibly there could be another thread for this, if enough people are interested?

It seems that codas and vowel initial syllables both present significant problems for my featural abugida. The script assumes that every character signifies an onset with the nucleic vowel marked with diacritics. This means that vowel initial syllables would need a silent placeholder character to w...

Well, reading up on the historical phonologies of some well-attested languages is useful (which the Index Diachronica can be one source for, but I agree it's not ideal, for multiple reasons), and note which changes and types of changes recur. For example, you might notice that fronting of u to [ʉ] ...

Might I suggest using <ng> for /ŋ/, <nng> for /ng/, and <ngg> for /ŋg/? That's lovely - I've never thought of that! Another solution that I quite like is having <ng> for /ŋ/, <n'g> for /nɡ/, and <ngg> for /ŋɡ/. The advantange of this solution is that you can scale it up to other digraphs, so things...

(a) do some basic research on what kinds of sound changes are common cross-linguistically -- many of the questions posted in this thread concern incredibly common types of sound change As someone who struggles a bit with thinking up interesting yet plausible sound changes, what resources can I use ...

Well, some things got in the way on my end, and interest seems to have died down anyway, but if anyone's still engaged with this, I've put up sample sentences for a third language now. Well, I haven't been too involved in this game (I'm not too good at reconstruction), but at a cursory look it seem...

bbbosborne wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:23 pm what sound changes can get me a bilabial trill?

The Index Diachronica lists mb → ʙ from Nias under 'Most Wanted Sound Changes'.

there's a labiodental approximant at the end of that first word There're a couple cases I've seen: - ʔukaːkʋ in sentence 3A - møɾʋ in sentence 3B - sʋ in sentence 4A - jʋ in sentence 5A How does those last two words even make sense? As far as I'm aware, it's not too common to have words without vow...

Another typo (I think): In the sound changes section of Modern Hanying, you have köni → kwöni caused by ö → wö /_k. Shouldn't this be ö → wö /k_ (i.e. you've swapped the _ and k)?

(Also, while I'm talking about sound changes, would it be possible to get the changes from HC to MH?)

Do you have any examples of languages which do this? I haven't come across any so far. You could look this paper ---it's about a Bantu language named Ruwund, but starts with a bunch of references. Hungarian is supposed to be another example. There are also case-marking languages in which direct obj...

So it would seem that Quechua just dispenses with the object agreement altogether and treats the copula as syntactically transitive but morphologically intransitive; I think I'm going to use this approach. What makes you think that the Quechua copula is syntactically transitive? What makes the adje...

zompist wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:52 pm (And again, Quechua is a weird example of polypersonal agreement because it's quite restricted.)

How? I always thought Quechua was fairly standard in this area - although admittedly I don't know all that much about the topic either...

Well, no words have person, other than pronouns. Personhood is indexical - it's a property not of the categorical reference of the word (I don't know the linguistic name for this - the quiddity of the reference, is what I mean), but of the haecceity of the referent relative to the perspective of th...

In general, I seem to be very confused about this subject: your reasoning makes a lot more sense than mine. Thanks for clearing this up! However, "see" is much more transitive, on the transitivity hierarchy, than a copula, so more likely to be treated more like a transitive. This transitiv...

I think it's important to point out that you're actually asking about an intransitive copula, not a transitive one. In "I am happy", the copula is intransitive, as it has (neither semantically nor syntactically) an object/patient. If you're treating it as transitive, by definition you're ...