Re: War in the Middle East, again
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 3:39 pm
according to the wiki, there's fewer than 10k jews in Iran, from something like 50k back before the revolution.
Is that indicative of how they are treated now? Jews left for Israel from all over the world, especially unstable places and Middle Eastern countries.
The fact that Jews were treated like utter crap throughout the Middle East after the 1947-1948 war despite most of them having no part in said war is a big reason why almost all of them moved to Israel (generally with what they could pack in a suitcase at most), and I have heard nothing that indicates that that has changed since then.rotting bones wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 4:04 pmIs that indicative of how they are treated now? Jews left for Israel from all over the world, especially unstable places and Middle Eastern countries.
But there are still 9.8k Jews in Iran, close enough to 10k. Iran is now a relatively stable country despite being a despotic regime. I'm wondering if there are any facts we know about how they are treated now.Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 4:08 pm The fact that Jews were treated like utter crap throughout the Middle East after the 1947-1948 war despite most of them having no part in said war is a big reason why almost all of them moved to Israel (generally with what they could pack in a suitcase at most), and I have heard nothing that indicates that that has changed since then.
Apparently Jews are treated better in Iran than in much of the Middle East -- but that is not saying much (considering just how atrociously they are treated in much of the Middle East; IIRC not too long ago Iraq put in place a law mandating the death penalty for ties to the "Zionist Entity"), especially since they still are subject to things such as coerced protests against Israel and being forced to cut ties to relatives in Israel, especially after October 7th.rotting bones wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 4:14 pmBut there are still 9.8k Jews in Iran, close enough to 10k. Iran is now a relatively stable country despite being a despotic regime. I'm wondering if there are any facts we know about how they are treated now.Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 4:08 pm The fact that Jews were treated like utter crap throughout the Middle East after the 1947-1948 war despite most of them having no part in said war is a big reason why almost all of them moved to Israel (generally with what they could pack in a suitcase at most), and I have heard nothing that indicates that that has changed since then.
I'm 100% confident that 100% of what humans have ever said without carefully checking the facts is 100% wrong. No human is physiologically capable of looking at a fact and saying, "Yeah, that sounds about right."
That's much worse than being arrested for participating in pro-Palestine protests like in the West. As for the recent civil rights violations in Israel, the only part that makes Iran worse is the death penalty.Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 4:36 pm Apparently Jews are treated better in Iran than in much of the Middle East -- but that is not saying much (considering just how atrociously they are treated in much of the Middle East; IIRC not too long ago Iraq put in place a law mandating the death penalty for ties to the "Zionist Entity"), especially since they still are subject to things such as coerced protests against Israel and being forced to cut ties to relatives in Israel, especially after October 7th.
Personally, I think people's tribal instincts are stoked by authoritarian rule and/or shitty socioeconomic conditions through the mechanisms I explained here some time around 2019. E.g. Despots create unfair social schemes, blame them on nature and foreigners, appeal to nostalgia to oppose novelty, etc.Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 12:28 pm I heard that Christian missionaries to the Middle East actually largely imported anti-Semitism there in the not-so-distant past, even though they largely failed to import Christianity itself (disregarding those Arabs and like who were already Christian to begin with).
Well the part about the death penalty was Iraq, not Iran. But yeah, being coerced into protesting against your will is horrible.rotting bones wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 4:46 pmThat's much worse than being arrested for participating in pro-Palestine protests like in the West. As for the recent civil rights violations in Israel, the only part that makes Iran worse is the death penalty.Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 4:36 pm Apparently Jews are treated better in Iran than in much of the Middle East -- but that is not saying much (considering just how atrociously they are treated in much of the Middle East; IIRC not too long ago Iraq put in place a law mandating the death penalty for ties to the "Zionist Entity"), especially since they still are subject to things such as coerced protests against Israel and being forced to cut ties to relatives in Israel, especially after October 7th.
Sorry, I thought you brought it up because Iran has something similar. I wouldn't be surprised if Jews with connections to Israel are targeted by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. They go around arresting and beating up random people like the KGB. A Chinese American scholar was extrajudicially incarcerated for being American (after they carefully made sure he has no connection to China, Iran's unofficial patron).
I mean a bit, yeah. it's one thing for some of your jews to migrate out to israel or wherever... but four in five is a lot. I admit it's weak, i'm only just now going on the 'what's the deal with jews in iran' googling session but the ADL says Iran is currently the least antisemitic country in the middle east: that probably boils down to... a fair amount of antisemitism, tbh. and they have all the incentive to lie and put their enemies on the blacklist. I'm inclined to believe the zionists on this "not as bad".rotting bones wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 4:04 pmIs that indicative of how they are treated now? Jews left for Israel from all over the world, especially unstable places and Middle Eastern countries.
I look at facts and say "yeah, sounds about right" most of the day tbh, sjust harder cuando estás caliente.I'm 100% confident that 100% of what humans have ever said without carefully checking the facts is 100% wrong. No human is physiologically capable of looking at a fact and saying, "Yeah, that sounds about right."
They left at a time of instability. It is now less unstable. My question had to do with the metamorphic relationship between instability and hostility.Torco wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 7:30 pm I mean a bit, yeah. it's one thing for some of your jews to migrate out to israel or wherever... but four in five is a lot. I admit it's weak, i'm only just now going on the 'what's the deal with jews in iran' googling session but the ADL says Iran is currently the least antisemitic country in the middle east: that probably boils down to... a fair amount of antisemitism, tbh. and they have all the incentive to lie and put their enemies on the blacklist. I'm inclined to believe the zionists on this "not as bad".
I feel the same way. I disbelieve us both. I don't believe that I'm correct about finding facts believable.
If I may ask, where are the Desolation Islands? I can't say I've ever heard of them before; sorry.rotting bones wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 11:02 amI wonder if there are any lands free for those of us who despise all major factions of 21st century politics. Are the Desolation Islands livable? Are there better options? Patagonia has a low population density.
They are a barely inhabited French territory on a microcontinent in the southern Indian Ocean. 49 degrees south latitude IIRC. 49 degrees north latitude is the south of France. The area is approximately 7k sq km. There is an indigenous edible plant that looks and tastes like a cabbage and prevents scurvy. Unfortunately, it is cold, windswept and desolate. But not nearly as cold as, say, Iceland. Whalers once used it as an outpost.
They are also known as the Kerguelen Islands.rotting bones wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 8:54 pmThey are a barely inhabited French territory on a microcontinent in the southern Indian Ocean. 49 degrees south latitude IIRC. 49 degrees north latitude is the south of France. The area is approximately 7k sq km. There is an indigenous edible plant that looks and tastes like a cabbage and prevents scurvy. Unfortunately, it is cold, windswept and desolate. But not nearly as cold as, say, Iceland. Whalers once used it as an outpost.
I also remember that I found out about this on a list of the most remote archipelagos on earth. What I don't remember is the usual name of the place, except that it starts with a K. I'm bad with names.
It's only 7900 miles from the US, if you go straight down.rotting bones wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 8:54 pm I also remember that I found out about this on a list of the most remote archipelagos on earth. What I don't remember is the usual name of the place, except that it starts with a K. I'm bad with names.
I suspect that, while many Iranians disagree with their government on many things, many others mostly or entirely agree with it. That is, after all, the usual political situation in the countries about whose politics I actually know something.bradrn wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2024 4:04 am My impression is that the antisemitism and other extremism is mostly pushed top-down from the government; of course it’s hard to avoid picking up antisemitic beliefs in that environment, but at the same time people are able to recognise government propaganda for what it is.
o.0rotting bones wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 4:14 pmI'm 100% confident that 100% of what humans have ever said without carefully checking the facts is 100% wrong. No human is physiologically capable of looking at a fact and saying, "Yeah, that sounds about right."
Dr. Bart Ehrman once said "Everybody thinks they have the correct belief. If you think you have the wrong belief, you change it." Now, its possible to be of the opinion "I used to have the wrong belief/opinion" about a topic...but its harder to have a view that you know is wrong - unless you're holding it deliberately for some reason.rotting bones wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 7:43 pmI feel the same way. I disbelieve us both. I don't believe that I'm correct about finding facts believable.