The perception of rhythm in language
The perception of rhythm in language
See what you make of this, if you haven't already seen it. It's quite provocative.
Self-referential signatures are for people too boring to come up with more interesting alternatives.
Re: The perception of rhythm in language
in writing, the spaces between words are enough
to produce the self-segmentation of the language flow...
unless you import natural languages,
it's hard to imagine how ambiguities can be avoided,
and whether they would paralyze the transmission of meaning...
conlangs, which are mostly silent languages,
have little data on their prosodies...
and tonic accents are often doubled by stereotyped syllables,
as in Esperanto...
in 3SDL, where the word limit is irrelevant
(I see it more as a one-word language),
I got around it with triple S equality (1Sense=1Sign=1Sound)...
and you, have you thought about it...
to produce the self-segmentation of the language flow...
unless you import natural languages,
it's hard to imagine how ambiguities can be avoided,
and whether they would paralyze the transmission of meaning...
conlangs, which are mostly silent languages,
have little data on their prosodies...
and tonic accents are often doubled by stereotyped syllables,
as in Esperanto...
in 3SDL, where the word limit is irrelevant
(I see it more as a one-word language),
I got around it with triple S equality (1Sense=1Sign=1Sound)...
and you, have you thought about it...
Re: The perception of rhythm in language
Shouldn't this be in L&L?
Re: The perception of rhythm in language
Agreed - this is very much a topic for L&L.
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
Re: The perception of rhythm in language
My gut reaction is that while this is generally correct, it is a little overblown, in that I’d wager that phrase-level pitch contour has at least as much to do with segmentation as rhythm.
Re: The perception of rhythm in language
So I realised too not long after logging out, aaarrrggghhh.
But I think you might need to read the paper more closely; some of its points are quite subtle.
Self-referential signatures are for people too boring to come up with more interesting alternatives.
Re: The perception of rhythm in language
I’m curious how many people noticed that this paper…
(Obviously alice has, but anyone else? If you haven’t, don’t spoil it by expanding this post… just re-read the paper and you’ll work it out.)
More: show
(Obviously alice has, but anyone else? If you haven’t, don’t spoil it by expanding this post… just re-read the paper and you’ll work it out.)
Conlangs: Scratchpad | Texts | antilanguage
Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices
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Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices
(Why does phpBB not let me add >5 links here?)
Re: The perception of rhythm in language
More: show
Conlangs: Scratchpad | Texts | antilanguage
Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices
(Why does phpBB not let me add >5 links here?)
Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices
(Why does phpBB not let me add >5 links here?)
Re: The perception of rhythm in language
Re: The perception of rhythm in language
I hate this (/pos) because I think it has the same metric structure as the bridge in "Weird" Al Yankovic's Your Horoscope For Today and can't help but start singing it in my head.
Re: The perception of rhythm in language
I had noticed that the prose of it was to my mind unusual yet i had not quite noticed it till it was pointed out.
I have the feeling that strong and clear segmentation might be an artifact of writing as opposed to something speakers "are doing under the hood", mostly cause people who are otherwise able to speak normally and functionally segment "incorrectly" in writing all the time. just today I read someone say "van hacer abuelos" in a message addressed to people who were going to be grampas ([ustedes] van a ser abuelos). that being said, stress and rhythm are totally essential to decode speaking by ear.
I have the feeling that strong and clear segmentation might be an artifact of writing as opposed to something speakers "are doing under the hood", mostly cause people who are otherwise able to speak normally and functionally segment "incorrectly" in writing all the time. just today I read someone say "van hacer abuelos" in a message addressed to people who were going to be grampas ([ustedes] van a ser abuelos). that being said, stress and rhythm are totally essential to decode speaking by ear.
Re: The perception of rhythm in language
I think you’re probably right. The term segmenting is perhaps a bit skewed to the expression of this phenomenon as it pertains to reading and writing. In parsing speech, there may well be no requirement for any neural process to segment anything per se, but rather... like... allow relevant individual neurones/neural areas which store recognition of items (however large) to be activated, by likeness or relationship according to a set of common rules, to the stimulus of speech.Torco wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 10:03 am
I have the feeling that strong and clear segmentation might be an artifact of writing as opposed to something speakers "are doing under the hood", mostly cause people who are otherwise able to speak normally and functionally segment "incorrectly" in writing all the time. just today I read someone say "van hacer abuelos" in a message addressed to people who were going to be grampas ([ustedes] van a ser abuelos). that being said, stress and rhythm are totally essential to decode speaking by ear.
Not knowing anything about that really I had better stop there!
Does anyone know of studies which aim to synthesise just the pitch content of English speech, or just its rhythmic content, and test for intelligibility?
Via vague awareness of e.g. whistling languages I’m aware that some languages are said to be significantly parseable from pitch alone, but I don’t know if that holds for English. And I’d be surprised if it did for, say, Finnish...
Re: The perception of rhythm in language
i don't, but i do know we do this all the time. like, when the gf is telling you a story and you're brushing your teeth so you want to ask "is she okay?" but you say "mhmhm" with the melody of is she okay.Does anyone know of studies which aim to synthesise just the pitch content of English speech, or just its rhythmic content, and test for intelligibility?
not that melody tho
Re: The perception of rhythm in language
For those of you who are wondering, this was my reaction too. Some of the idioms (e.g. "makes segmenting speech a breeze") struck me as peculiar, but I put that down to the fact this is not unusual for linguistic papers.
The (non-linguist) friend who showed it to me worked it out very quickly, btw.
Self-referential signatures are for people too boring to come up with more interesting alternatives.
Re: The perception of rhythm in language
I got all the way to ‘manner iron-cast’ before I realised there was something going on here.
Conlangs: Scratchpad | Texts | antilanguage
Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices
(Why does phpBB not let me add >5 links here?)
Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices
(Why does phpBB not let me add >5 links here?)