War in the Middle East, again

[Torco]

according to the wiki, there's fewer than 10k jews in Iran, from something like 50k back before the revolution.

[rotting bones]

according to the wiki, there's fewer than 10k jews in Iran, from something like 50k back before the revolution.

Is that indicative of how they are treated now? Jews left for Israel from all over the world, especially unstable places and Middle Eastern countries.

[Travis B.]

according to the wiki, there's fewer than 10k jews in Iran, from something like 50k back before the revolution.

Is that indicative of how they are treated now? Jews left for Israel from all over the world, especially unstable places and Middle Eastern countries.

The fact that Jews were treated like utter crap throughout the Middle East after the 1947-1948 war despite most of them having no part in said war is a big reason why almost all of them moved to Israel (generally with what they could pack in a suitcase at most), and I have heard nothing that indicates that that has changed since then.

[rotting bones]

The fact that Jews were treated like utter crap throughout the Middle East after the 1947-1948 war despite most of them having no part in said war is a big reason why almost all of them moved to Israel (generally with what they could pack in a suitcase at most), and I have heard nothing that indicates that that has changed since then.

But there are still 9.8k Jews in Iran, close enough to 10k. Iran is now a relatively stable country despite being a despotic regime. I'm wondering if there are any facts we know about how they are treated now.

I'm 100% confident that 100% of what humans have ever said without carefully checking the facts is 100% wrong. No human is physiologically capable of looking at a fact and saying, "Yeah, that sounds about right."

[Travis B.]

The fact that Jews were treated like utter crap throughout the Middle East after the 1947-1948 war despite most of them having no part in said war is a big reason why almost all of them moved to Israel (generally with what they could pack in a suitcase at most), and I have heard nothing that indicates that that has changed since then.

But there are still 9.8k Jews in Iran, close enough to 10k. Iran is now a relatively stable country despite being a despotic regime. I'm wondering if there are any facts we know about how they are treated now.

I'm 100% confident that 100% of what humans have ever said without carefully checking the facts is 100% wrong. No human is physiologically capable of looking at a fact and saying, "Yeah, that sounds about right."

Apparently Jews are treated better in Iran than in much of the Middle East -- but that is not saying much (considering just how atrociously they are treated in much of the Middle East; IIRC not too long ago Iraq put in place a law mandating the death penalty for ties to the "Zionist Entity"), especially since they still are subject to things such as coerced protests against Israel and being forced to cut ties to relatives in Israel, especially after October 7th.

[rotting bones]

Apparently Jews are treated better in Iran than in much of the Middle East -- but that is not saying much (considering just how atrociously they are treated in much of the Middle East; IIRC not too long ago Iraq put in place a law mandating the death penalty for ties to the "Zionist Entity"), especially since they still are subject to things such as coerced protests against Israel and being forced to cut ties to relatives in Israel, especially after October 7th.

That's much worse than being arrested for participating in pro-Palestine protests like in the West. As for the recent civil rights violations in Israel, the only part that makes Iran worse is the death penalty.

[rotting bones]

I heard that Christian missionaries to the Middle East actually largely imported anti-Semitism there in the not-so-distant past, even though they largely failed to import Christianity itself (disregarding those Arabs and like who were already Christian to begin with).

Personally, I think people's tribal instincts are stoked by authoritarian rule and/or shitty socioeconomic conditions through the mechanisms I explained here some time around 2019. E.g. Despots create unfair social schemes, blame them on nature and foreigners, appeal to nostalgia to oppose novelty, etc.

[Travis B.]

Apparently Jews are treated better in Iran than in much of the Middle East -- but that is not saying much (considering just how atrociously they are treated in much of the Middle East; IIRC not too long ago Iraq put in place a law mandating the death penalty for ties to the "Zionist Entity"), especially since they still are subject to things such as coerced protests against Israel and being forced to cut ties to relatives in Israel, especially after October 7th.

That's much worse than being arrested for participating in pro-Palestine protests like in the West. As for the recent civil rights violations in Israel, the only part that makes Iran worse is the death penalty.

Well the part about the death penalty was Iraq, not Iran. But yeah, being coerced into protesting against your will is horrible.

[rotting bones]

Well the part about the death penalty was Iraq, not Iran. But yeah, being coerced into protesting against your will is horrible.

Sorry, I thought you brought it up because Iran has something similar. I wouldn't be surprised if Jews with connections to Israel are targeted by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. They go around arresting and beating up random people like the KGB. A Chinese American scholar was extrajudicially incarcerated for being American (after they carefully made sure he has no connection to China, Iran's unofficial patron).

[Torco]

according to the wiki, there's fewer than 10k jews in Iran, from something like 50k back before the revolution.

Is that indicative of how they are treated now? Jews left for Israel from all over the world, especially unstable places and Middle Eastern countries.

I mean a bit, yeah. it's one thing for some of your jews to migrate out to israel or wherever... but four in five is a lot. I admit it's weak, i'm only just now going on the 'what's the deal with jews in iran' googling session but the ADL says Iran is currently the least antisemitic country in the middle east: that probably boils down to... a fair amount of antisemitism, tbh. and they have all the incentive to lie and put their enemies on the blacklist. I'm inclined to believe the zionists on this "not as bad".

I'm 100% confident that 100% of what humans have ever said without carefully checking the facts is 100% wrong. No human is physiologically capable of looking at a fact and saying, "Yeah, that sounds about right."

I look at facts and say "yeah, sounds about right" most of the day tbh, sjust harder cuando estás caliente.

[rotting bones]

I mean a bit, yeah. it's one thing for some of your jews to migrate out to israel or wherever... but four in five is a lot. I admit it's weak, i'm only just now going on the 'what's the deal with jews in iran' googling session but the ADL says Iran is currently the least antisemitic country in the middle east: that probably boils down to... a fair amount of antisemitism, tbh. and they have all the incentive to lie and put their enemies on the blacklist. I'm inclined to believe the zionists on this "not as bad".

They left at a time of instability. It is now less unstable. My question had to do with the metamorphic relationship between instability and hostility.

I look at facts and say "yeah, sounds about right" most of the day tbh, sjust harder cuando estás caliente.

I feel the same way. I disbelieve us both. I don't believe that I'm correct about finding facts believable.

[keenir]

I wonder if there are any lands free for those of us who despise all major factions of 21st century politics. Are the Desolation Islands livable? Are there better options? Patagonia has a low population density.

If I may ask, where are the Desolation Islands? I can't say I've ever heard of them before; sorry.

[rotting bones]

If I may ask, where are the Desolation Islands? I can't say I've ever heard of them before; sorry.

They are a barely inhabited French territory on a microcontinent in the southern Indian Ocean. 49 degrees south latitude IIRC. 49 degrees north latitude is the south of France. The area is approximately 7k sq km. There is an indigenous edible plant that looks and tastes like a cabbage and prevents scurvy. Unfortunately, it is cold, windswept and desolate. But not nearly as cold as, say, Iceland. Whalers once used it as an outpost.

I also remember that I found out about this on a list of the most remote archipelagos on earth. What I don't remember is the usual name of the place, except that it starts with a K. I'm bad with names.

[Travis B.]

If I may ask, where are the Desolation Islands? I can't say I've ever heard of them before; sorry.

They are a barely inhabited French territory on a microcontinent in the southern Indian Ocean. 49 degrees south latitude IIRC. 49 degrees north latitude is the south of France. The area is approximately 7k sq km. There is an indigenous edible plant that looks and tastes like a cabbage and prevents scurvy. Unfortunately, it is cold, windswept and desolate. But not nearly as cold as, say, Iceland. Whalers once used it as an outpost.

I also remember that I found out about this on a list of the most remote archipelagos on earth. What I don't remember is the usual name of the place, except that it starts with a K. I'm bad with names.

They are also known as the Kerguelen Islands.

[rotting bones]

They are also known as the Kerguelen Islands.

Thank you. People might oppose colonizing it because it might endanger seal habitats or something. There might also be better options. What do you think?

[zompist]

I also remember that I found out about this on a list of the most remote archipelagos on earth. What I don't remember is the usual name of the place, except that it starts with a K. I'm bad with names.

It's only 7900 miles from the US, if you go straight down.

(That is, it's one of the only bits of land that are at the antipodes from US territory.)

[bradrn]

I’ve only ever known them under the name ‘Kerguelen’, never ‘Desolation’.

As for Iran: I have also heard that, compared to the rest of the Islamic world, it has less antisemitism. But ‘less’ is a relative word; I don’t think the Jews there are having a particularly great time of it. Of course, emigrating to Israel or the US is not to be thought of in Iran.

Something I’ve heard about Iran is that, historically, it’s been one of the most moderate parts of the Islamic world. The few Iranians I’ve met have certainly fit that description. My impression is that the antisemitism and other extremism is mostly pushed top-down from the government; of course it’s hard to avoid picking up antisemitic beliefs in that environment, but at the same time people are able to recognise government propaganda for what it is.

[Raphael]

My impression is that the antisemitism and other extremism is mostly pushed top-down from the government; of course it’s hard to avoid picking up antisemitic beliefs in that environment, but at the same time people are able to recognise government propaganda for what it is.

I suspect that, while many Iranians disagree with their government on many things, many others mostly or entirely agree with it. That is, after all, the usual political situation in the countries about whose politics I actually know something.

(People all too often seem to assume that, in any given country, the current government is either beloved by everyone or hated by everyone. Even if they're perfectly aware that that's not how things work in their own country.)

[keenir]

I’ve only ever known them under the name ‘Kerguelen’, never ‘Desolation’.

ah, okay. thank you for clearing that up; those islands, I have heard of, under that name.

[keenir]

I'm 100% confident that 100% of what humans have ever said without carefully checking the facts is 100% wrong. No human is physiologically capable of looking at a fact and saying, "Yeah, that sounds about right."

o.0
I'm not sure whether to ask how you define the word "fact" then, or ask how much time is allowed to pass between "humans have ever said" and "carefully checking the facts"...

...If I say spoken human languages involve sound, a statement I make despite not having carefully checked that fact in over twenty years...am I wrong?

I look at facts and say "yeah, sounds about right" most of the day tbh, sjust harder cuando estás caliente.

I feel the same way. I disbelieve us both. I don't believe that I'm correct about finding facts believable.

Dr. Bart Ehrman once said "Everybody thinks they have the correct belief. If you think you have the wrong belief, you change it." Now, its possible to be of the opinion "I used to have the wrong belief/opinion" about a topic...but its harder to have a view that you know is wrong - unless you're holding it deliberately for some reason.