Name That Language!

Natural languages and linguistics
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fusijui
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Name That Language!

Post by fusijui »

I thought I'd try reviving the 'guess the mystery language' thread that used to run here. If it's run its course and doesn't get picked up, that's cool too.

The basic idea is, one at a time, a poster presents a paragraph or so of text in some language; readers reply with their identifications/guesses of what language it is; whoever is the first to get it correctly becomes the next poster of a sample text.

My own guidelines:
1) No re-transcriptions or transliterations for the sake of obfuscation; use the source text as-is whenever possible, unless the script/orthography itself is a dead giveaway;
2) Broad guesses as to geographical origin or genetic membership are fine (and fun!), but the original poster isn't obliged to play a 'warmer/colder' guessing-game;
3) Natlangs only, please.

I'll (re)start this tradition with the following:
Qaná:ŋ ɫáŋen kɫin xkálax sítɫpket pḗmacx kánkwatan, mniɫ kḗkelene kisin. "Akiká! Kíma, léxsxe, nánkwatazmaŋ," ksiɫqazúknen. Íɫgiziɫ kíɫknen léxsxanke. Kéɫlken pḗmacx léxsxanke. Klínluin: "Last, áŋqa isx ɫoqazónen?"

Ína xéinegen: "'Kíma qam ixsɫkeq knánke,' ina kíma ítigemnin gapaqámtalxanke xkálaŋ sítɫpqel nánqwatmaŋ, maníɫ kḗkelene kíman nénqwanen; kɫkaŋán, kíma kstáŋan. Kíma a:zózk hīnc míɫkicen ésxanke ténaq, nanqwátaxmaŋ kíma xkálan sítɫxpqel."

Qulán kɫxlenk ténaq ína ŋímsxin-mítxenk kingliqazuín ésxanke: "Tewt qun qénxɫxc, ténaq qcáqaɫqaz, ŋónke kxeíneqez, 'Ísxe, múza hac á:zozk mniɫ hóptma nsxezízkicen, sénke kíza kzéɫaɫc, tée gapaqámtalxank, túza ɫámnu télweeq pilgétqazaɫsx.'"
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Pabappa
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Re: Name That Language!

Post by Pabappa »

Okay .... Im guessing the hardest part of this thread is going to be finding a sample text that someone cant just google and find the answer immediately. could you give us advice on that?

I guess Salishan just based on /tɫxp/.

Also, are á: and ḗ both long vowels?
Nortaneous
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Re: Name That Language!

Post by Nortaneous »

Itelmen
Duaj teibohnggoe kyoe' quaqtoeq lucj lhaj k'yoejdej noeyn tucj.
K'yoejdaq fohm q'ujdoe duaj teibohnggoen dlehq lucj.
Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq.
Kuchigakatai
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Re: Name That Language!

Post by Kuchigakatai »

fusijui wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:20 pm1) No re-transcriptions or transliterations for the sake of obfuscation; use the source text as-is whenever possible, unless the script/orthography itself is a dead giveaway
Genuine question: what is the usefulness of this rule? Most orthographies easily give the language away with a little googling, so if you insist on keeping original orthographies, then you're relying on the honourable thing of not googling the examples at all. Which is fine, because there's no reward at stake here, but then I don't understand why retranscribing sentences in IPA isn't allowed. (If anything, I would've expected the opposite: not allowing original orthographies.)

It took me about 15 seconds to find the language of the opening post by cheating with the use of Google, for example. Just to show you I did, the name of the language has an L and a vowel that occurs more than once (in its English spelling).
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Whimemsz
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Re: Name That Language!

Post by Whimemsz »

Yeah I would agree that having it in IPA transcription rather than the original orthography is more of a real challenge, though possibly a too-difficult one in some cases. Basically, if it's really, really obscure language, you might be able to keep it in the original orthography and have it still be difficult (but even there, the common practices for orthography design by linguists and community members in different geographical areas/language families/traditions/time periods will often be a giveaway of the general place to look), but an IPA transcription could make even relatively well-known languages a challenge as long as no one here actually knew the language (but it would make some obscure languages virtually impossible, so...I dunno, there's some balance to reach, maybe just leaving it up to the poster's judgment?)
fusijui
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Re: Name That Language!

Post by fusijui »

Wow, clearly we're bored and need more stimulation here! :D
Pabappa wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:24 pm Okay .... Im guessing the hardest part of this thread is going to be finding a sample text that someone cant just google and find the answer immediately. could you give us advice on that?
Books and articles, basically. Older materials are less likely to be OCR'd and Google-able, I would guess. Obviously, if you look online for mystery material, it's not going to be a mystery to anyone who wants to "win" by plugging it back into a search engine.
Ser wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:13 pm Genuine question: what is the usefulness of this rule? Most orthographies easily give the language away with a little googling, so if you insist on keeping original orthographies, then you're relying on the honourable thing of not googling the examples at all. Which is fine, because there's no reward at stake here, but then I don't understand why retranscribing sentences in IPA isn't allowed. (If anything, I would've expected the opposite: not allowing original orthographies.)
It's not a rule, but a suggestion at most — at least, how I'd do it when my turn comes around. So there's no insistences or disallowances intended.

I do remember this 'game' bringing out the competitive instinct in some players, and Google being heavily used for solutions, but I can't see the point — for me, the fun lies in staring at a little chunk of text and trying to remember if I've seen something like it before, and why I think what I think about it.

As far as IPA goes, I think my only objection would be the tendency for personal idiosyncrasies of transcription becoming the focus. Particularly if you're working from poorly or anciently-documented sources, putting it into IPA is a pretty dubious proposition, IMO.
It took me about 15 seconds to find the language of the opening post by cheating with the use of Google, for example. Just to show you I did, the name of the language has an L and a vowel that occurs more than once (in its English spelling).
Ilongot? Google is so awesome!!! ;)
Whimemsz wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:27 pm (B)ut an IPA transcription could make even relatively well-known languages a challenge as long as no one here actually knew the language (but it would make some obscure languages virtually impossible, so...I dunno, there's some balance to reach, maybe just leaving it up to the poster's judgment?)
I think it would be great if different 'posers' follow their own muses, really. (Provided they explain up-front what they've done, as needed.) Why not try that and see how it goes?

The first opportunity, however, should go to
Nortaneous wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:18 pmItelmen
who I much prefer to think of as an avid Siberianist and not a filthy, depraved Googleist…
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Pabappa
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Re: Name That Language!

Post by Pabappa »

Well Im a little bit embarrassed, since I also tried Googling the answer before I posted, figuring I had no chance of guessing it the proper way ... and when Google gave me absolutely nothing I assumed that the text was something that had never been published online before, and that I still had a legitimate reason to participate in the challenge. I dont know what you did to find it in just 15 seconds because it certainly isnt working for me. I guess it would be still possible to go ahead with this *if* we can find things that have legitimately never been published online before, but I would have a very difficult time making a post if I happened to win one round.
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linguistcat
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Re: Name That Language!

Post by linguistcat »

I'd think the point of the game would be to NOT google the text, since the fun is in using what you already know or answers given by the person posting to figure it out. Obviously it's not like there's any way to prove someone didn't, but what's the fun in doing so?
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fusijui
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Re: Name That Language!

Post by fusijui »

linguistcat wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:14 pm I'd think the point of the game would be to NOT google the text, since the fun is in using what you already know or answers given by the person posting to figure it out. Obviously it's not like there's any way to prove someone didn't, but what's the fun in doing so?
Well, for a lot of folks, the fun is actually in being correct and being first and being recognized — and there's really no way to prevent them from having their fun. Except mockery and social snubbing, if it's prolonged and vicious enough :)

Just occurred to me that I should clarify: when I said I preferred "no needless transcriptions", what I actually had in mind was using the common, most generic Latin transcription for any language at hand, and not (for example) writing us phonetically-rendered Ulster Gaelic but using Kharoṣṭhi (because hey clever!) But yes, if you're offering some obscure Dagestani language in the actual Cyrillic-based orthography, that's going to give the game right away, I agree. Transliterating it into a 'neutral' system seems fairer and tougher. But that's just my own taste. Whether it's a (semi-)standardized Latin transcription of the native script, or IPA, why don't we try leaving that to the puzzle-setter on a case by case basis?
Nortaneous
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Re: Name That Language!

Post by Nortaneous »

Itelmen is pretty distinctive. But that's better than a completely generic obscure language that people have to play ten pages of hot or cold with.
Ga de mangiti a lua tama e faia dola pupa Logōtī. Odi de hufi odi i de fati luaina. I de lakuna de ulu o de hufi ga i de lakuna de muli o de afi, ga i de toa hua dona tumoaki. Odi a de tahi de tahi ga a de tōtiae lava de muli o de hufi. I de pelā oti gi de thāthünyi, odi de tolo, odi de ulu tolo a de Ulumatua lava, de muli tolo a de tōtiae lava. Penā oti gi de mangiti. De nei dogu puco gia goulua. Ga goulā hano kake i de vaka odi iakoe ulumatua ga ge kake lā gi de vaka, hano balua gi de mata vaka, tū i mata vaka. De nā iakoe dou potu. Iakoe tōtiae ga ge kake lā gi vaka hano gi muli, gi muli vaka veli. Ko koe gi no nō i tua. Ko koe gi no kumia de foe. Ko koe gi no toa foeina de vaka, doula vaka. De nā. Iakoe ulumatua, kitea hua iakoe penei gi no numai o gade Téléina de foe!
Duaj teibohnggoe kyoe' quaqtoeq lucj lhaj k'yoejdej noeyn tucj.
K'yoejdaq fohm q'ujdoe duaj teibohnggoen dlehq lucj.
Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq.
Kuchigakatai
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Re: Name That Language!

Post by Kuchigakatai »

fusijui wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:51 pm
Ser wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:13 pmIt took me about 15 seconds to find the language of the opening post by cheating with the use of Google, for example. Just to show you I did, the name of the language has an L and a vowel that occurs more than once (in its English spelling).
Ilongot? Google is so awesome!!! ;)
I didn't want to state outright that Nortaneous was right, in case anybody wanted to have fun thinking of a guess, but my description tried to encompass the two names of the language, Itelmen and Kamchadal.
Moose-tache
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Re: Name That Language!

Post by Moose-tache »

Why do people in this thread find it so hard to just not google something?

Nortaneous: I'll ask the question on everyone's lips: Austronesian or not Austronesian?
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bradrn
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Re: Name That Language!

Post by bradrn »

Moose-tache wrote: Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:18 am Why do people in this thread find it so hard to just not google something?

Nortaneous: I'll ask the question on everyone's lips: Austronesian or not Austronesian?
Or even more specifically: Polynesian or not Polynesian?

(By the way, I saw this thread earlier today — I think it’s a great idea!)
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Nortaneous
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Re: Name That Language!

Post by Nortaneous »

Polynesian

Futunic doesn't seem to be universally accepted as a grouping
Duaj teibohnggoe kyoe' quaqtoeq lucj lhaj k'yoejdej noeyn tucj.
K'yoejdaq fohm q'ujdoe duaj teibohnggoen dlehq lucj.
Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq.
Qwynegold
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Re: Name That Language!

Post by Qwynegold »

Just throwing out a guess: Chuukese
Nortaneous
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Re: Name That Language!

Post by Nortaneous »

Qwynegold wrote: Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:29 pm Just throwing out a guess: Chuukese
no
Duaj teibohnggoe kyoe' quaqtoeq lucj lhaj k'yoejdej noeyn tucj.
K'yoejdaq fohm q'ujdoe duaj teibohnggoen dlehq lucj.
Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq.
Nortaneous
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Re: Name That Language!

Post by Nortaneous »

Frislander wrote: Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:41 pmOutlier?
yes
Duaj teibohnggoe kyoe' quaqtoeq lucj lhaj k'yoejdej noeyn tucj.
K'yoejdaq fohm q'ujdoe duaj teibohnggoen dlehq lucj.
Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq.
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